Charles Elgwyn Taylor
Do you think the Buddha would object to prayer? I live with terrible pain from arthritis, sometimes all I can do to meditate 10 minutes, other times 4 hours. I felt better last night after prayer. I live with terrible pain. I believe meditation helps so much. Been following Jack Kornfield, especially self healing meditation--I anm Zen, leaning toward Theravada.
Like · · February 11 at 6:20am
Stuffs RedTurtle, Joel Agee and 2 others like this.
Melissa Pilar That would be aversion on the Buddha's part, eh. Here's hoping relief comes to you always, Chuck.
February 11 at 6:31am · Like · 2
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Please explain--new to online Sangas.
February 11 at 6:33am · Like
Tom Radcliffe He ain't around so I suppose you can do what you like!
February 11 at 6:38am · Like · 2
Melissa Pilar OK. Here's a quick start.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_poisons_(Buddhism)
February 11 at 6:39am · Like
Melissa Pilar http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/.../the-hindrance.../
February 11 at 6:41am · Like
Tom Radcliffe Anything which helps, helps. Please allow yourself to relieve your physical suffering without worrying about what's right or wrong.
February 11 at 6:42am · Like · 6
Charles Elgwyn Taylor I believe that in my case ignorance does not apply. My condition is genetic; I have the genetic marker for Ankylosing Spondylitis. Almost all current medication only slightly affect pain, There is hope for me in that I take a relatively new med. Remicade, IV every 7 weeks. Meditation definitely helps and the pain returns, trying acupuncture now, see what that brings. In the day of Buddha genetics were not known.
February 11 at 6:51am · Like
Tom Radcliffe Nowadays the Dharma is not known. I hope that you find as much relief as possible.
February 11 at 6:54am · Like · 1
Melissa Pilar I just did a search on Aversion. The other 2 poisons will most likely show up, too.
February 11 at 6:54am · Like
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Aversion, so I see if I get mad at my arthritis doc because he does not return my call or he has no answers, this is aversion, and if I think there is some deity that is going to get me well, this is ignorance, and if demand a solution this both aversion and desire. I do not believe that all health state are the result of the three poisons, but the affect how I respond--I hurt.
February 11 at 7:29am · Like
Tom Radcliffe Oh good lord! Is someone trying to sell you the old "You're sick cos you're bad nonsense?" What crap! Bodies are unsatisfactory that's all! If you want to create a deity and pray to it and that helps - that's good! Wow, there is a whole section of the Abhidharma devoted to the multiple causes of things. Karma is only one force in the universe. There are many others. It is true that resistance to pain makes it worse but not resisting it doesn't make it go away either.
February 11 at 7:37am · Like · 4
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Right now a hot pack is sitting on my head, and that helps..
February 11 at 7:42am · Like · 1
Mardava Christian Palocz Pray to Amitabha
February 11 at 7:51am · Like · 1
Albert Hong http://youtu.be/e8OR8s0rz8c
She is swift. Let it touch your heart.
If I were in your shoes and in a way I am.
I'd do fucking anything and everything to feel better.
February 11 at 7:53am · Like · 4
Albert Hong It is said if we longingly pray to the Buddhas for help, they will come.
I don't really believe that its a metaphor. They will come.
Wish you well sir.
February 11 at 7:55am · Like · 4
Joel Agee Charles Elgwyn Taylor,, there's a book that happens to be written by a BUddhist, about using mindfulness meditation to transform one's relationship to chronic pain: Full Catastrophe Living, By Jon Kabat-Zinn. I've heard it've very good.
February 11 at 8:08am · Like · 3
Melissa Pilar Chuck, I brought up Aversion only to say that the Buddha would not take issue with your praying because then he would be practicing Aversion. He might have had other advise about praying, but what do I know. Physical pain is difficult. I have it most of the time, too. I don't pray, but I do take aspirin and medical weed when it gets really bad. And I practice meditation and mindfulness, following the Dharma and accepting things AS IS. I meditate flat on my back if necessary. If praying helps you, I wouldnt dare challenge it.
February 11 at 9:50am · Like
Kyle Dixon Ignorance in Buddhism means ignorance [skt. avidyā, tib. ma rig pa] of your nature, meaning your innate Buddha nature. It doesn't mean ignorant in the way we usually use the term.
Ignorance is the root of attachment and aversion.
February 11 at 10:09am · Like · 1
Viorica Doina Neacsu "Do you think the Buddha would object to prayer?"
Dear Charles Elgwyn Taylor, prayer is a form of meditation. Buddha taught kindness and compassion so i don't see a reason you to don't be kind with yourself.
Sending love and peace to you
February 11 at 10:20am · Like · 3
Kyle Dixon Charles, on days you can only meditate for a short period of time, is that due to discomfort from sitting in a certain way? Because you can sit however is comfortable. In a chair, on the couch, whatever works. Or you can stand or lie down, walk, there's really no limitation. So if meditating in a certain position is hard, or you have a position that is comfortable for you then use that. But my mom has arthritis so I understand there's some days where nothing is comfortable, prayer is good too. If you like prayer type activity you may really enjoy Vajrayāna practices.
February 11 at 10:43am · Like · 5
Justin Struble Charles, "aversion" in the buddhist sense used above means resisting or trying to escape from your experience. That doesn't mean that you should not use medications or other methods to minimize your pain.
But once you have applied whatever practical means are possible to reduce your pain, it would not be beneficial at that point to "resist" whatever pain you are left to cope with.
Most people don't notice this, but the vast majority of their pain and suffering consists of mental and physical tension and resistance to bodily sensations of pain, as well as fear and worry of future pain, or remembering / reliving pain from the past.
If we simply observe our pain without becoming imbedded in, caught up in, and reactive to it, the pain can be seen as impermanent, and transient, we can watch it come and go with equanimity.
If we resist the pain or cling to it, we may find that that very resistance or clinging amplifies and worsens the pain, and it may also prolong it. I am genetically predisposed to migraine w/ aura for example, as both my parents have them.
When i get a migraine, if I react to it with tension and resistance, that simply makes the migraine worse. But if I observe the pain with equanimity, without becoming imbedded or caught up in it, or reactive to it, I don't add unnecessary tension and stress to the pain. I don't worsen it, I give the pain space, and this gives it space to pass away without obstruction and interference.
Here's hoping you experience minimal pain and that you can utilize your meditation practice to gain insight into the nature of your pain and your response to it.
February 11 at 10:47am · Like · 4
Justin Struble Additionally, some traditions of buddhism pray to Amitabha Buddha, like so:
"Namo Amitabha Buddha"
One can also pray to Medicine Buddha, and ask for relief:
"Namo Medicine Buddha ..." etc.
February 11 at 11:06am · Edited · Like · 1
Robert Healion Do what ever you can to ease the pain. What would Buddha do, well he was pragmatic, though how will hoping as in prayer ease the pain. However as I believe in a structured other world, (as did Buddha), there is nothing wrong with trying.. Strong painkillers will but alas are only temporary. As for practice like everyone, in the midst of great pain, great pleasure, remember there is a part of you that Is the witness. Look for it.
February 11 at 11:18am · Like · 2
Robert Healion a pig, a bird, and a snake.
The three poisons or the three unwholesome roots, in Buddhism, refer to the three root kleshas of ignorance, attachment, and aversion. These three poisons are considered to be the cause of suffering (Sanskrit: dukkha).
What no rabbits with horns.
In the Tibetan camps when a person gets sick, lay person, monk or nun, they hightail it to the medical clinic. When the Dalai lama was asked to bless a sick child he asks has the child seen a doctor.
There is no magic in Buddhism, just a philosophy. The best this forum can offer is diversion and sympathy. As far as I am concerned: Take as much as you want.
February 11 at 11:43am · Edited · Like · 1
Ville Räisänen Charles, I've heard that Ankylosing Spondylitis is the enemy of yogis... My girlfriends both brothers have this and I know it can be painful and hard to deal with. So use anything you can, pray if it feels right, don't let anyone say something is wrong because someone said so then and then... I wish I could help you more but I just don't know how. Because of my background I just pray to Mother. It's the shakti, bliss and love, energy in the body and especially in spine that you can feel. She will take care of me if I can surrender. But I would advise that use whatever deity or form you are comfortable with. Hope all the best for you!!!
February 11 at 3:59pm · Like · 1
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Yes, Ive been reading of the 3 poisons--ignorance, attachment, and aversion--I don't believe in faith healing, and the mind in its manifold aspects is subtle and strong.
February 11 at 4:00pm · Like
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Jack Kornfield's expiation for self healing where a monk had constructed a retreat for healing during the Vietnam War has a powerful image of the Buddha and Jesus embracing, recognizing the restorative power in the historical figures. I take medications as prescribed. Thank you Melissa for your kind clarification.
February 11 at 4:16pm · Like · 2
Melissa Pilar Of course, Chuck. Sorry to have been terse originally.
February 11 at 4:28pm · Like · 1
Jan Berling Shinzen young has something to say about this, too. He is trained in Zen and theraveda, so you may like him.
February 11 at 4:51pm · Like · 1
Soh Sometimes I pray to Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva and I do believe in prayers, there has been many positive results in past experience. And when I'm sick sometimes I recite this, it helps: https://www.facebook.com/groups/dharmaconnection/permalink/764614313565787/ It's a Theravada chant and it works.
Dharma Connection
May all who discern and rejoice in these factors of enlightenment be free from a...See More
February 11 at 5:02pm · Edited · Like · 2 · Remove Preview
Do you think the Buddha would object to prayer? I live with terrible pain from arthritis, sometimes all I can do to meditate 10 minutes, other times 4 hours. I felt better last night after prayer. I live with terrible pain. I believe meditation helps so much. Been following Jack Kornfield, especially self healing meditation--I anm Zen, leaning toward Theravada.
Like · · February 11 at 6:20am
Stuffs RedTurtle, Joel Agee and 2 others like this.
Melissa Pilar That would be aversion on the Buddha's part, eh. Here's hoping relief comes to you always, Chuck.
February 11 at 6:31am · Like · 2
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Please explain--new to online Sangas.
February 11 at 6:33am · Like
Tom Radcliffe He ain't around so I suppose you can do what you like!
February 11 at 6:38am · Like · 2
Melissa Pilar OK. Here's a quick start.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_poisons_(Buddhism)
February 11 at 6:39am · Like
Melissa Pilar http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/.../the-hindrance.../
February 11 at 6:41am · Like
Tom Radcliffe Anything which helps, helps. Please allow yourself to relieve your physical suffering without worrying about what's right or wrong.
February 11 at 6:42am · Like · 6
Charles Elgwyn Taylor I believe that in my case ignorance does not apply. My condition is genetic; I have the genetic marker for Ankylosing Spondylitis. Almost all current medication only slightly affect pain, There is hope for me in that I take a relatively new med. Remicade, IV every 7 weeks. Meditation definitely helps and the pain returns, trying acupuncture now, see what that brings. In the day of Buddha genetics were not known.
February 11 at 6:51am · Like
Tom Radcliffe Nowadays the Dharma is not known. I hope that you find as much relief as possible.
February 11 at 6:54am · Like · 1
Melissa Pilar I just did a search on Aversion. The other 2 poisons will most likely show up, too.
February 11 at 6:54am · Like
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Aversion, so I see if I get mad at my arthritis doc because he does not return my call or he has no answers, this is aversion, and if I think there is some deity that is going to get me well, this is ignorance, and if demand a solution this both aversion and desire. I do not believe that all health state are the result of the three poisons, but the affect how I respond--I hurt.
February 11 at 7:29am · Like
Tom Radcliffe Oh good lord! Is someone trying to sell you the old "You're sick cos you're bad nonsense?" What crap! Bodies are unsatisfactory that's all! If you want to create a deity and pray to it and that helps - that's good! Wow, there is a whole section of the Abhidharma devoted to the multiple causes of things. Karma is only one force in the universe. There are many others. It is true that resistance to pain makes it worse but not resisting it doesn't make it go away either.
February 11 at 7:37am · Like · 4
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Right now a hot pack is sitting on my head, and that helps..
February 11 at 7:42am · Like · 1
Mardava Christian Palocz Pray to Amitabha
February 11 at 7:51am · Like · 1
Albert Hong http://youtu.be/e8OR8s0rz8c
She is swift. Let it touch your heart.
If I were in your shoes and in a way I am.
I'd do fucking anything and everything to feel better.
February 11 at 7:53am · Like · 4
Albert Hong It is said if we longingly pray to the Buddhas for help, they will come.
I don't really believe that its a metaphor. They will come.
Wish you well sir.
February 11 at 7:55am · Like · 4
Joel Agee Charles Elgwyn Taylor,, there's a book that happens to be written by a BUddhist, about using mindfulness meditation to transform one's relationship to chronic pain: Full Catastrophe Living, By Jon Kabat-Zinn. I've heard it've very good.
February 11 at 8:08am · Like · 3
Melissa Pilar Chuck, I brought up Aversion only to say that the Buddha would not take issue with your praying because then he would be practicing Aversion. He might have had other advise about praying, but what do I know. Physical pain is difficult. I have it most of the time, too. I don't pray, but I do take aspirin and medical weed when it gets really bad. And I practice meditation and mindfulness, following the Dharma and accepting things AS IS. I meditate flat on my back if necessary. If praying helps you, I wouldnt dare challenge it.
February 11 at 9:50am · Like
Kyle Dixon Ignorance in Buddhism means ignorance [skt. avidyā, tib. ma rig pa] of your nature, meaning your innate Buddha nature. It doesn't mean ignorant in the way we usually use the term.
Ignorance is the root of attachment and aversion.
February 11 at 10:09am · Like · 1
Viorica Doina Neacsu "Do you think the Buddha would object to prayer?"
Dear Charles Elgwyn Taylor, prayer is a form of meditation. Buddha taught kindness and compassion so i don't see a reason you to don't be kind with yourself.
Sending love and peace to you
February 11 at 10:20am · Like · 3
Kyle Dixon Charles, on days you can only meditate for a short period of time, is that due to discomfort from sitting in a certain way? Because you can sit however is comfortable. In a chair, on the couch, whatever works. Or you can stand or lie down, walk, there's really no limitation. So if meditating in a certain position is hard, or you have a position that is comfortable for you then use that. But my mom has arthritis so I understand there's some days where nothing is comfortable, prayer is good too. If you like prayer type activity you may really enjoy Vajrayāna practices.
February 11 at 10:43am · Like · 5
Justin Struble Charles, "aversion" in the buddhist sense used above means resisting or trying to escape from your experience. That doesn't mean that you should not use medications or other methods to minimize your pain.
But once you have applied whatever practical means are possible to reduce your pain, it would not be beneficial at that point to "resist" whatever pain you are left to cope with.
Most people don't notice this, but the vast majority of their pain and suffering consists of mental and physical tension and resistance to bodily sensations of pain, as well as fear and worry of future pain, or remembering / reliving pain from the past.
If we simply observe our pain without becoming imbedded in, caught up in, and reactive to it, the pain can be seen as impermanent, and transient, we can watch it come and go with equanimity.
If we resist the pain or cling to it, we may find that that very resistance or clinging amplifies and worsens the pain, and it may also prolong it. I am genetically predisposed to migraine w/ aura for example, as both my parents have them.
When i get a migraine, if I react to it with tension and resistance, that simply makes the migraine worse. But if I observe the pain with equanimity, without becoming imbedded or caught up in it, or reactive to it, I don't add unnecessary tension and stress to the pain. I don't worsen it, I give the pain space, and this gives it space to pass away without obstruction and interference.
Here's hoping you experience minimal pain and that you can utilize your meditation practice to gain insight into the nature of your pain and your response to it.
February 11 at 10:47am · Like · 4
Justin Struble Additionally, some traditions of buddhism pray to Amitabha Buddha, like so:
"Namo Amitabha Buddha"
One can also pray to Medicine Buddha, and ask for relief:
"Namo Medicine Buddha ..." etc.
February 11 at 11:06am · Edited · Like · 1
Robert Healion Do what ever you can to ease the pain. What would Buddha do, well he was pragmatic, though how will hoping as in prayer ease the pain. However as I believe in a structured other world, (as did Buddha), there is nothing wrong with trying.. Strong painkillers will but alas are only temporary. As for practice like everyone, in the midst of great pain, great pleasure, remember there is a part of you that Is the witness. Look for it.
February 11 at 11:18am · Like · 2
Robert Healion a pig, a bird, and a snake.
The three poisons or the three unwholesome roots, in Buddhism, refer to the three root kleshas of ignorance, attachment, and aversion. These three poisons are considered to be the cause of suffering (Sanskrit: dukkha).
What no rabbits with horns.
In the Tibetan camps when a person gets sick, lay person, monk or nun, they hightail it to the medical clinic. When the Dalai lama was asked to bless a sick child he asks has the child seen a doctor.
There is no magic in Buddhism, just a philosophy. The best this forum can offer is diversion and sympathy. As far as I am concerned: Take as much as you want.
February 11 at 11:43am · Edited · Like · 1
Ville Räisänen Charles, I've heard that Ankylosing Spondylitis is the enemy of yogis... My girlfriends both brothers have this and I know it can be painful and hard to deal with. So use anything you can, pray if it feels right, don't let anyone say something is wrong because someone said so then and then... I wish I could help you more but I just don't know how. Because of my background I just pray to Mother. It's the shakti, bliss and love, energy in the body and especially in spine that you can feel. She will take care of me if I can surrender. But I would advise that use whatever deity or form you are comfortable with. Hope all the best for you!!!
February 11 at 3:59pm · Like · 1
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Yes, Ive been reading of the 3 poisons--ignorance, attachment, and aversion--I don't believe in faith healing, and the mind in its manifold aspects is subtle and strong.
February 11 at 4:00pm · Like
Charles Elgwyn Taylor Jack Kornfield's expiation for self healing where a monk had constructed a retreat for healing during the Vietnam War has a powerful image of the Buddha and Jesus embracing, recognizing the restorative power in the historical figures. I take medications as prescribed. Thank you Melissa for your kind clarification.
February 11 at 4:16pm · Like · 2
Melissa Pilar Of course, Chuck. Sorry to have been terse originally.
February 11 at 4:28pm · Like · 1
Jan Berling Shinzen young has something to say about this, too. He is trained in Zen and theraveda, so you may like him.
February 11 at 4:51pm · Like · 1
Soh Sometimes I pray to Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva and I do believe in prayers, there has been many positive results in past experience. And when I'm sick sometimes I recite this, it helps: https://www.facebook.com/groups/dharmaconnection/permalink/764614313565787/ It's a Theravada chant and it works.
Dharma Connection
May all who discern and rejoice in these factors of enlightenment be free from a...See More
February 11 at 5:02pm · Edited · Like · 2 · Remove Preview
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