• Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω
Yesterday at 5:25am
Anyone realized here?
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Bdcrtgb Rcnrcrrdfvnb Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, you're really on a hunt, aren't you?
Yesterday at 8:20am • Like
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Bdcrtgb Rcnrcrrdfvnb Yes, I'm looking for people who can beat my jnana in traditional way.
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, what do you mean by "my jnana"?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω My knowledge and experiences, insight.
Soh about spiritual experiences they are like something to talk about and gossip, it's not really enlightenment and do not comes from the bliss of experience of what we call Self. This who wrote about these experiences it's just opening the gates for ego so it can close it, it waste because it's not about experience something but staying there so opening much gates to experience but not going into it it's just a waste. (I can related to these experiences which he wrote about it because I had mostly the same or very similar stuff but there is one stage lacking of the heart, which is not written anywhere and that is indication of enlightenment.)
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Yes, only a Self can look around for people who can beat his jnana...
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Do not get it literally otherwise you will miss the point because of attachment to different concept you will only receive people thru them not the way they are.
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Soh Those are Realizations, not experiences.
As Thusness indicated to me in 2009 (where I had experiences) before my Self-Realization in 2010:
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/.../realization...
Excerpt:
So what is lacking? You do not lack the experience, you lack the realization. You may have the blissful sensation or feeling of vast and open spaciousness; you may experience a non-conceptual and objectless state; you may experience the mirror like clarity but all these experiences are not Realization. There is no ‘eureka’, no ‘aha’, no moment of immediate and intuitive illumination that you understood something undeniable and unshakable -- a conviction so powerful that no one, not even Buddha can sway you from this realization because the practitioner so clearly sees the truth of it. It is the direct and unshakable insight of ‘You’. This is the realization that a practitioner must have in order to realize the Zen satori. You will understand clearly why it is so difficult for those practitioners to forgo this ‘I AMness’ and accept the doctrine of anatta. Actually there is no forgoing of this ‘Witness’, it is rather a deepening of insight to include the non-dual, groundlessness and interconnectedness of our luminous nature. Like what Rob said, "keep the experience but refine the views".
Lastly this realization is not an end by itself, it is the beginning. If we are truthful and not over exaggerate and get carried away by this initial glimpse, we will realize that we do not gain liberation from this realization; contrary we suffer more after this realization. However it is a powerful condition that motivates a practitioner to embark on a spiritual journey in search of true freedom.
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Furthermore, even after I AMness is realized, further insights continue to unfold.
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/.../mistaken...
Thusness:
Excerpt:
Like a river flowing into the ocean, the self dissolves into nothingness. When a practitioner becomes thoroughly clear about the illusionary nature of the individuality, subject-object division does not take place. A person experiencing “AMness” will find “AMness in everything”. What is it like?
Being freed from individuality -- coming and going, life and death, all phenomenon merely pop in and out from the background of the AMness. The AMness is not experienced as an ‘entity’ residing anywhere, neither within nor without; rather it is experienced as the ground reality for all phenomenon to take place. Even in the moment of subsiding (death), the yogi is thoroughly authenticated with that reality; experiencing the ‘Real’ as clear as it can be. We cannot lose that AMness; rather all things can only dissolve and re-emerges from it. The AMness has not moved, there is no coming and going. This "AMness" is God.
Practitioners should never mistake this as the true Buddha Mind! "I AMness" is the pristine awareness. That is why it is so overwhelming. Just that there is no 'insight' into its emptiness nature. Nothing stays and nothing to hold on to. What is real, is pristine and flows, what stays is illusion. The sinking back to a background or Source is due to being blinded by strong karmic propensities of a 'Self'. It is a layer of ‘bond’ that prevents us from ‘seeing’ something…it is very subtle, very thin, very fine…it goes almost undetected. What this ‘bond’ does is it prevents us from ‘seeing’ what “WITNESS” really is and makes us constantly fall back to the Witness, to the Source, to the Center. Every moment we want to sink back to Witness, to the Center, to this Beingness, this is an illusion. It is habitual and almost hypnotic.
But what exactly is this “witness” we are talking about? It is the manifestation itself! It is the appearance itself! There is no Source to fall back, the Appearance is the Source! Including the moment to moment of thoughts. The problem is we choose, but all is really it. There is nothing to choose.
There is no mirror reflecting
Manifestation alone IS.
There is no invisible witness hiding anywhere. Whenever we attempt to fall back to an invisible transparent image, it is again the mind game of thought. It is the ‘bond’ at work.
Awakening to Reality: Realization and Experience and Non-Dual Experience from Different Perspectives
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω You are not in bliss so you are not realized. Experiences come and go, realization stays because it's something which is already there but you was not aware of this like the going in car and not feeling the breeze of air but when you open window there ...See More
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω
"Do not get it literally otherwise you will miss the point because of attachment to different concept you will only receive people thru them not the way they are."
I think you are talking about yourself and to yourself. If i take out your assumptions your comments vanish.
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Soh Who said 'I am not in bliss'? Bliss is definitely a characteristic of self-realization and abiding in Self. The bliss can be incredibly intense and 'intoxicating', no doubt. Sometimes I smile suddenly because it is so blissful. Sometimes I wake up from the intense bliss of Presence in sleep. (yes, even in sleep, the bliss can be super intense)
In any case, your question "who is witnessing" presumes a 'Subject' who is witnessing, but Buddhadharma leads us to a realization that 'witnessing is merely manifestation' without a background Subject. The background Subject is seen through... dropped. But there is no denial of the 'witnessing' or 'pure awareness'. It's only the wrong view of duality and inherency that is seen through.
I'm very busy this week so I will not be replying any more for some time, I'm sure others can have a nice discussion with you.
I will leave you with a few more quotes from Thusness:
84. RE: Is there an absolute reality? [Skarda 4 of 4]
Mar 27 2009, 9:15 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2009, 9:15 AM EDT
Hi theprisonergreco,
First is what exactly is the ‘background’? Actually it doesn’t exist. It is only an image of a ‘non-dual’ experience that is already gone. The dualistic mind fabricates a ‘background’ due to the poverty of its dualistic and inherent thinking mechanism. It ‘cannot’ understand or function without something to hold on to. That experience of the ‘I’ is a complete, non-dual foreground experience.
When the background subject is understood as an illusion, all transience phenomena reveal themselves as Presence. It is like naturally 'vipassanic' throughout. From the hissing sound of PC, to the vibration of the moving MRT train, to the sensation when the feet touches the ground, all these experiences are crystal clear, no less “I AM” than “I AM”. The Presence is still fully present, nothing is denied. -:) So the “I AM” is just like any other experiences when the subject-object split is gone. No different from an arising sound. It only becomes a static background as an after thought when our dualistic and inherent tendencies are in action.
The first 'I-ness' stage of experiencing awareness face to face is like a point on a sphere which you called it the center. You marked it.
Then later you realized that when you marked other points on the surface of a sphere, they have the same characteristics. This is the initial experience of non-dual. Once the insight of No-Self is stabilized, you just freely point to any point on the surface of the sphere -- all points are a center, hence there is no 'the' center. 'The' center does not exist: all points are a center.
After then practice move from 'concentrative' to 'effortlessness'. That said, after this initial non-dual insight, 'background' will still surface occasionally for another few years due to latent tendencies...
86. RE: Is there an absolute reality? [Skarda 4 of 4]
Mar 27 2009, 11:59 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2009, 11:59 AM EDT
To be more exact, the so called 'background' consciousness is that pristine happening. There is no a 'background' and a 'pristine happening'. During the initial phase of non-dual, there is still habitual attempt to 'fix' this imaginary split that does not exist. It matures when we realized that anatta is a seal, not a stage; in hearing, always only sounds; in seeing always only colors, shapes and forms; in thinking, always only thoughts. Always and already so. -:)
24. RE: The mind and the watcher
Apr 7 2009, 5:46 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:57 PM EDT
Gozen wrote: "I AM: Paradoxically, one feels at the same time that one is both essentially untouched by all phenomena and yet intimately at one with them. As the Upanishad says "Thou are That."
1.a. Body and Mind as Constructs: Another way to look at this is to observe that all compound things -- including one's own body and mind -- are **objects to awareness.** That is to say, from the "fundamental" point of view of primordial awareness, or True Self, even body and mind are **not self.**"
Thusness:
Ha Gozen, I re-read the post and saw **not self**, I supposed u r referring to anatta then I have to disagree.... However I agree with what that u said from the Vedanta (True Self) standpoint. But going into it can make it appears unnecessary complex.
As a summary, I see anatta as understanding the **transience** as Awareness by realizing that there is no observer apart from the observed. Effectively it is referring to the experience of in seeing, only scenery, no seer. In hearing, only sound, no hearer. The experience is quite similar to “Thou are That” except that there is no sinking back to a Source as it is deemed unnecessary. Full comfort is found in resting completely as the transience without even the slightest need to refer back to a source. For the source has always been the manifestation due to its emptiness nature.
All along there is no dust alighting on the Mirror; the dust has always been the Mirror. We fail to recognize the dust as the Mirror when we are attached to a particular speck of dust and call it the ”Mirror”; When a particular speck of dust becomes special, then all other pristine happening that are self-mirroring suddenly appears dusty.
Anything further, we will have to take it private again.
- http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/.../emptiness...
Awakening to Reality: Emptiness as Viewless View and Embracing the Transience
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, are you from HoM cult? Just curious....
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Viorica Doina Neacsu yes. I'm talking to myself if you would realize it truly as it is not as just ego-concept to put wall between consciousness you would know the truth of what I'm speaking here, just do not get to personal otherwise this talk will sn...See More
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, in all respect i notice that your comments are contradictory. First you suggest "Do not get it literally otherwise you will miss the point" and then " just do not get to personal otherwise this talk will snowball into ugly ways so keep this in mind".
Those are the only two ways to read a comment, literally or personal. Please decide what you expect from me. Thank you and have a great day!
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Soh Anatta realization is the most direct, non-conceptual touch of awareness as manifestation, anything else is indirect.
You may have non-conceptual glimpse of Awareness, or even rest stably in Self in nirvikalpa samadhi, but the path of directness and effortlessness only begins with anatta realization.
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Soh Even "abiding as Self" is indirect because it postulates a state to get back to.
As Thusness wrote in 2009:
"Many like to talk about the Natural State and direct path. I am a non-sectarian and I do not believe in monopoly over truth but still I see Buddhism's Dependent Origination most profound. Over the years, I have enough conversations, discussions and mail correspondences. It has come to a point that I retract from all these and resort to being a “”PasserBy” . My advice to those attempting to engage in the direct path is not to take it as a short cut as in one of my reply to AEN:
Hi AEN,
I do not usually reply people about spiritual stuff but I sense the confusion in Mikael's mail to you.
It is advisable to correctly point out to him that there is no short cut to direct path.
In the most direct path, Awareness is already and always at rest. In the most direct path, whatever manifests is Awareness; there is no "in Awareness" and there is no such thing as going deeper in Awareness or resting in Awareness. Anything "going deeper" or "resting" is nothing direct. Nothing more than the illusionary appearances of 'hierarchy' caused by the inherent and dualistic tendency of understanding things. It is more 'gradual' than 'direct'. Therefore have the right view first before we talk too much about the direct path so that we do not fall into such views. Next clearly understand the cause that blinds us then have direct authentication of our pristine nature so that we will not be misled.
By the way, non-discrimination does not deny us from clear discernment. An enlightenment person is not one that cannot differentiate 'left' from 'right'.
When we say 'rest in the natural state', we must not postulate as if there is 'state' where the mind can access and rest. There is no such state. There is no entry and exit point nor is there a behind background for us to rest our mind. We are talking about a direct realization of our luminous yet empty nature. It defies all subject-object and inherent view. If we want to bypass 'this step of firm establishment of right view', just make sure we are able to correctly understand our pristine nature when glimpses of our nature dawn; it is easily distorted and misinterpreted and that is why dependent origination is taught.
Dependent Origination demolishes hierarchy; brings the absolute to the same level as the transience. See the absolute as nothing more special than an arising thought ,a subsiding sound, a passing scent. It opens up all sense doors and see all moments, any time and anywhere as entry point to our Buddha Nature. It flattens the 3 states of waking, sleeping and dreaming and see movement and stillness as one.
And
That is what 'Natural State', 'No Mind' and 'One Taste' are about. We do not on one hand talk about natural state, naked awareness and on the other hand talk about a resting state or access to a higher samadhi. There is no resting place and no deeper samadhi to access. All states are equally pure, pristine and empty, therefore no preference, no movement and nothing gain. Such is the direct path, anything other than that is 'gradual'. "
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Viorica Doina Neacsu I suggest not picking up about "me" and "I" because you creating more karma and suffering by that. Just face it what I'm saying and do not attach to much ego-opinion to it to defense it but drop your coins to the conversation. I'm looking for realized person not chit-chat about ignorance so that what I expect from you if you ask me, but do whatever you wish to do.
Soh I realized Anatta when I was teenage and it was like steroids, it's true. I realized emptiness, fullness, atman, open bindu on the right side of my head (I do not found explanation for that experience but this is where from my jnana/knowledge of reality comes of Truth) but still these kinds of realization stay with me but they are not blissful (or only for some time). Once I attained savikalpa samadhi in between of sohaja, but now I'm seeking method/pointers so I can stabilize that bliss and not slick out from it. If someone realized can help me with it I would be glad. I experienced all states that are possible to experience by yogis, sounds, visuals, god's appearing in different states etc. but this is mere illusion of mind and I always detached for that things. Three states only stay with me, first is anatta, no self as gate but anatta experience gone only that it left me with "something" which I'm always conscious and it's pleasant, after emptiness which I go thru anatta i realized myself and energy moved to ajna. Now I understand all knowledge about life and different worlds (lokas) but it's still nothing. After that I realized that I'm everything and nothing which leave me blissful and fulfilled it was it for sure and no doubt moment of enlightenment, but after sometime somehow I slipped away from it not because it's was come and go but I unattached myself from this to different form - like in reincarnation but still in the body. For me being in bliss is indivertible with enlightenment because you directly know and see maya and thru maya and you are happy because of that as person who woke up from bad dream which thought it was real. As you can understand my background compare nad point me out if you can to push me into that or so I can push myself into that dissolution when I and no-I do not exists and when I say bliss I'm not saying about jumping and being happy or on heroine, if you know the bliss of enlightenment you know it's beyond bliss.
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, thank you for all your suggestions. I don't use to have suggestions if no one is asking for but when it is the case i remind members to be polite if loving-kindness is too much.
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Soh As Thusness said in 2012 in a meeting with other like minded spiritual aspirants which I translated and transcribed, "...when I experienced the I AMness, then I AM Everything. At that time I very much wanted to become a monk. When I first experienced, it lasted for many days, not just (hours?) Then when it rained, I suddenly strip off all my clothes, then I go out and get drenched, and kept laughing and smiling. Because I think I am everything – I like being (dripped) by the rain. Then I thought, if there is a waterfall, I can just sit there and how nice that will be! Then I saw a dog, I really wanted to go and touch it. That was when I was 17 years old, suddenly I had this... (?) intoxicated. So when the bond of the consciousness is being released, (?). Then when I meditate, you will not believe the kind of bliss that I undergo. That kind of intoxication, it is just like taking drugs.... ....and you yourself is like melted like that, into a state of clear bliss... there is this total presence, and this pure presence must be able to maintain and sustain for a substantial period for you to understand the bliss."
I have experienced similar bliss. He too shared his many experiences about seeing other realms, Buddhas, recalling past lives, etc. But those are side effects of samadhi and not the main point of spirituality.
I agree the Nirvikalpa samadhi is incredibly blissful... and certainly one can train in abiding in samadhi. However it later came to me that samadhi (though important) is not the entirety of the path to liberation.. samadhi can be blissful but other bonds of consciousness is dissolved through deeper insights and leads to greater release and effortlessness.
We have another member here Seraph Tai, director of the institute of transpersonal psychology, he too had Self-Realization since 1993 filled with incredibly bliss and after many years he attained mastery of Samadhi. But he also had further realization into anatta and further more recently which helped a lot. What you described is the formless Causal Self-realization, however, 'Emptiness' in Buddhism have a different meaning.
His article documents his experience of Nirvikalpa samadhi and insights you may want to look into it: https://app.box.com/s/7u47emus4osjxzpnqs03 (his description of Samadhi starts with 'Part One: the Causal')
SeraphDraft.pdf - File Shared from Box
app.box.com
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω It's funny because some people are going other-side of the stick, my first spiritual experience Anatta, someone realized samadhi then anatta it's very weird. For me samadhi is ultimate, because they is nothing beyond. What are methods to push myself deeply into that state? Control of samadhi would be very good. In my tradition sohaj samadhi is ultimate enlightenment when you are into natural state of bliss but still active and liberated from death and brith and that how this state is.
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Soh There are many degrees of no-self. Some are talking about impersonality, some nondual, some anatta, we have different meaning for the terms here. Maybe you can describe your experience?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω I thought I explained them. You mean Anatta experience or samadhi? I weird because I never found people who wrote about opening the right heart and being absorbed and guess it's going too fast but you can't really miss it, I only found it in ramana maharshi book.
My problem is that there is suffering (even more because regular joe do not have experience how deep existence can be) but there is a lot of experience but I'm not being absorbed by it thinking that I'm something else then that which absorbed me into the endless bliss and I could not figure it out who to get absorbed here and now.
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Soh I wrote in my e-book before it is similar to what you experience:
"...its totally formless except sheer presence and bliss, sort of like deep sleep state where all contents and dreams have dissolved... there may also be a sense of becoming absorbed into the heart center. At first I was curious about this and later found out that in tibetan texts it is described that in state of sleep and death, the winds enter the heart chakra followed by the revelation of clear light."
My friend John Ahn https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001584197956... who had similar realizations (I AM, non dual, anatta, total exertion etc) spoke of similar experiences.
I discussed this with him last year:
John Ahn
8/11, 9:50pm
John Ahn
pure stable awareness where everything is seen as illusion spontaneously manifesting??
actually i enter this like weeks ago
not fully of course
but i can now just sit and dissolve everything into the heart awareness
this is very much similar to kunlun practice
kunlun is awakening this heart awareness
Soh
8/11, 9:52pm
Soh
i see..
John Ahn
8/11, 9:52pm
John Ahn
total heart bliss
its really beautiful and evreything is total unity presence but you and thusness are always anatta anatta anatta
but in many ways this does continue
the heart bliss but more subtly and more effortless with anatta
Soh
8/11, 9:54pm
Soh
heart awareness - does it really mean centered in the heart, or?
just nondual awareness
John Ahn
8/11, 9:54pm
John Ahn
yeah
Soh
8/11, 9:54pm
Soh
yeah = ?
John Ahn
8/11, 9:54pm
John Ahn
at least thats my experience
its in solar plexus region
Soh
8/11, 9:54pm
Soh
ah yes. i experienced that
John Ahn
8/11, 9:54pm
John Ahn
pure awareness explodes there
ok yeah so i think in practice like maintaining pure awareness
*its to remain in this pure bliss consciosness and dissolve all karmic momentum
so they say go to cave and do meditation just in this state for years
like ramana did
John Ahn
Studied at New York University
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Soh With regards to Anatta, I wrote before long ago:
"First I do not see Anatta as merely a freeing from personality sort of experience as you mentioned; I see it as that a self/agent, a doer, a thinker, a watcher, etc, cannot be found apart from the moment to moment flow of manifestation or as its commonly expressed as ‘the observer is the observed’; there is no self apart from arising and passing. A very important point here is that Anatta/No-Self is a Dharma Seal, it is the nature of Reality all the time -- and not merely as a state free from personality, ego or the ‘small self’ or a stage to attain. This means that it does not depend on the level of achievement of a practitioner to experience anatta but Reality has always been Anatta and what is important here is the intuitive insight into it as the nature, characteristic, of phenomenon (dharma seal).
To put further emphasis on the importance of this point, I would like to borrow from the Bahiya Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/.../kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html) that ‘in the seeing, there is just the seen, no seer’, ‘in the hearing, there is just the heard, no hearer’ as an illustration. When a person says that I have gone beyond the experiences from ‘I hear sound’ to a stage of ‘becoming sound’, he is mistaken. When it is taken to be a stage, it is illusory. For in actual case, there is and always is only sound when hearing; never was there a hearer to begin with. Nothing attained for it is always so. This is the seal of no-self. Therefore to a non dualist, the practice is in understanding the illusionary views of the sense of self and the split. Before the awakening of prajna wisdom, there will always be an unknowing attempt to maintain a purest state of 'presence'. This purest presence is the 'how' of a dualistic mind -- its dualistic attempt to provide a solution due to its lack of clarity of the spontaneous nature of the unconditioned. It is critical to note here that both the doubts/confusions/searches and the solutions that are created for these doubts/confusions/searches actually derive from the same cause -- our karmic propensities of ever seeing things dualistically"
Bahiya Sutta: About Bahiya
www.accesstoinsight.org
Thus have I heard. At one time the Lord was staying near Savatthi in the Jeta Wo... See More
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Yes, it's like a death excatly like you first post about it said. It's like sleep and death, you are dead then but yet alive that why you see that there is no death at all and you are immortal and can do everything you want because you already dead in the body but body still have karma to workout so that why it's called jivamukti - soul that is liberated yet in his body but totally free.
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Soh "I could not figure it out who to get absorbed here and now."
You mean 'how'?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Yes, I mean how to do it and stay here to resolve all karma. That is the aim of advaita of ramana maharshi to be in sohaja samadhi in atma-loka which is that the same but samadhi is more pointer to experience and atma loka mean that blissful space and just live liberated immortal life like these ones in satya yuga.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω I forgot true sadhana which now I realize if you can't accept - forgive, know it may sound cheezy but forgive is the way of dissolving mind which is hiding true nature of ourself, but do not say I forgive you or something because it's big ego, just forgive and let it act thru forgivness. If you not forgive you will not dissolve.
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David Vardy Anatta extinguishes the question of 'how' in recognizing the absence of the agent. Who is asking "how to do it and stay here to resolve all karma"?
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Jody Radzik Drop all the conceptualizations about what realization is and about what it is like as an experience, and you'll be way ahead of most folks.
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Jody Radzik The mind does not hide the "true nature of ourself," the mind IS our true nature. It's the conceptual objects that are carried in the mind that are the problem, and the conceptual objects that the mind carries about realization are the biggest problem in nonduality spirituality.
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Jody Radzik For instance, the idea that the mind can hide the "true nature of ourself" is precisely one of those occluding conceptual objects.
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Jody Radzik Thinking about realization and what it is like as an experience does more to prevent realization than all the drug dens and brothels in the world combined.
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Roy Arne What he describes is ‘I AMness’ and not Anatta.
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Soh I'm going to meditate... and sleep. Just curious Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω how old are you (relatively)?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω I experienced Anatta, It's just recognition that you are not what you think you are so you regonition that you are not, you are not that "I" but it will not liberate you because your energies become very feeble they will attach to the subtle bodies, An...See More
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Roy Arne Read this article
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.ro/.../on-anatta...
Awakening to Reality: On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous...
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.nl
Simple brilliance~thank you for this insightful sharing that is mirrored innerly... See More
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David Vardy I AMness includes seeing 'you aren't who you think you are', cuts through the mistaken identity of a person, but reestablishes the identity as a background, a witness. Anatta cuts through the illusion of identity, not only the mistaken identity.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω So any of this gates and ways should annihilte the mind but it's not doing it permanetly. Anatta cannot kill pure awarness which you are mistaken to be a little "I".
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Roy Arne The mind is not annihilated. The perception is changing. As David said, anatta cuts through the illusion of a background, a witness and it is realized that that was always the case.
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Roy Arne Ramana is guiding to ‘I AMness’.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω I agree but when you realize Anatta is not end itself because you will anyway create another ego couple days later to month with a bit space between mind and body.
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Albert Hong There is a distinction made here between a realization and say an experience.
And it would be wise to distinguish the two. As this solves your basic question.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω You are realized when experience appears otherwise you just thinking about it.
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Albert Hong Alright. Have fun in the sophistic cave.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Sophistic way is when content of your mind change but experience of reality do not. How do you know you are realized without experience?
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Albert Hong They are all interdependent. View, realization and experience.
It's a common theme in spiritual mumbo jumbo to segregate experience from concept.
But they all play into each other.
But we can emphasize one over the other and form a loop.
Realization cuts the underlying assumptions. If we focus say on experience then we can have a no mind experience where we are liberated for brief moments or days and then find ourselves in bondage. This results because we are focusing on experience rather than the underlying momentum of ignorance.
If we cut the ignorance or the assumption that there was a self to begin with then there is no going back or losing. Because its seen that there was no self to gain or lose to begin with. That can be a pretty view. Or nice sounding words. And one can even use that view into experience to have the actualization.
It's all a made up solution for a made up problem.
Like even me expressing this. I'm expressing as such because there is a certain posturing of views present within the writing above.
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Bdcrtgb Rcnrcrrdfvnb "Anatta cuts through the illusion of identity, not only the mistaken identity." David Vardy, I loved that one!!
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Soh Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω you don't seem to understand anatta... to be clearer of the terms we use (especially it can be quite confusing since there are in fact different degrees of no-self) I'll share an article I wrote before:
...See More
Awakening to Reality: Insight Diagnosis Simplified
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
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Soh Once anatta is realized, it cannot be unseen, and the experience of No-Mind becomes effortless and natural.. definitely not some mere peak experiences.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω It's cuts only of false identity because there is neither true or false identity. No-I it's the same as I'm in true from. Anatta do not make you no-mind , maybe for a while. You are talking no-mind but you think about past or the future so better let we see experience the way they are. I agree that Once anatta is realized it cannot be unseen which true I or no-I experience and sees cleary.
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Soh You are talking about an experience, right now Anatta is actualized all the time here, all the time, in seeing just the vivid self-luminous colours (even saying that is too much) without an observer, just the total exertion, action of typing, sound of 'da da da' keyboard typing... (not the words)... no doer.
Unable to post comment. Try Again
Yesterday at 5:25am
Anyone realized here?
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Bdcrtgb Rcnrcrrdfvnb Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, you're really on a hunt, aren't you?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Bdcrtgb Rcnrcrrdfvnb Yes, I'm looking for people who can beat my jnana in traditional way.
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, what do you mean by "my jnana"?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω My knowledge and experiences, insight.
Soh about spiritual experiences they are like something to talk about and gossip, it's not really enlightenment and do not comes from the bliss of experience of what we call Self. This who wrote about these experiences it's just opening the gates for ego so it can close it, it waste because it's not about experience something but staying there so opening much gates to experience but not going into it it's just a waste. (I can related to these experiences which he wrote about it because I had mostly the same or very similar stuff but there is one stage lacking of the heart, which is not written anywhere and that is indication of enlightenment.)
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Yes, only a Self can look around for people who can beat his jnana...
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Do not get it literally otherwise you will miss the point because of attachment to different concept you will only receive people thru them not the way they are.
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Soh Those are Realizations, not experiences.
As Thusness indicated to me in 2009 (where I had experiences) before my Self-Realization in 2010:
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/.../realization...
Excerpt:
So what is lacking? You do not lack the experience, you lack the realization. You may have the blissful sensation or feeling of vast and open spaciousness; you may experience a non-conceptual and objectless state; you may experience the mirror like clarity but all these experiences are not Realization. There is no ‘eureka’, no ‘aha’, no moment of immediate and intuitive illumination that you understood something undeniable and unshakable -- a conviction so powerful that no one, not even Buddha can sway you from this realization because the practitioner so clearly sees the truth of it. It is the direct and unshakable insight of ‘You’. This is the realization that a practitioner must have in order to realize the Zen satori. You will understand clearly why it is so difficult for those practitioners to forgo this ‘I AMness’ and accept the doctrine of anatta. Actually there is no forgoing of this ‘Witness’, it is rather a deepening of insight to include the non-dual, groundlessness and interconnectedness of our luminous nature. Like what Rob said, "keep the experience but refine the views".
Lastly this realization is not an end by itself, it is the beginning. If we are truthful and not over exaggerate and get carried away by this initial glimpse, we will realize that we do not gain liberation from this realization; contrary we suffer more after this realization. However it is a powerful condition that motivates a practitioner to embark on a spiritual journey in search of true freedom.
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Furthermore, even after I AMness is realized, further insights continue to unfold.
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/.../mistaken...
Thusness:
Excerpt:
Like a river flowing into the ocean, the self dissolves into nothingness. When a practitioner becomes thoroughly clear about the illusionary nature of the individuality, subject-object division does not take place. A person experiencing “AMness” will find “AMness in everything”. What is it like?
Being freed from individuality -- coming and going, life and death, all phenomenon merely pop in and out from the background of the AMness. The AMness is not experienced as an ‘entity’ residing anywhere, neither within nor without; rather it is experienced as the ground reality for all phenomenon to take place. Even in the moment of subsiding (death), the yogi is thoroughly authenticated with that reality; experiencing the ‘Real’ as clear as it can be. We cannot lose that AMness; rather all things can only dissolve and re-emerges from it. The AMness has not moved, there is no coming and going. This "AMness" is God.
Practitioners should never mistake this as the true Buddha Mind! "I AMness" is the pristine awareness. That is why it is so overwhelming. Just that there is no 'insight' into its emptiness nature. Nothing stays and nothing to hold on to. What is real, is pristine and flows, what stays is illusion. The sinking back to a background or Source is due to being blinded by strong karmic propensities of a 'Self'. It is a layer of ‘bond’ that prevents us from ‘seeing’ something…it is very subtle, very thin, very fine…it goes almost undetected. What this ‘bond’ does is it prevents us from ‘seeing’ what “WITNESS” really is and makes us constantly fall back to the Witness, to the Source, to the Center. Every moment we want to sink back to Witness, to the Center, to this Beingness, this is an illusion. It is habitual and almost hypnotic.
But what exactly is this “witness” we are talking about? It is the manifestation itself! It is the appearance itself! There is no Source to fall back, the Appearance is the Source! Including the moment to moment of thoughts. The problem is we choose, but all is really it. There is nothing to choose.
There is no mirror reflecting
Manifestation alone IS.
There is no invisible witness hiding anywhere. Whenever we attempt to fall back to an invisible transparent image, it is again the mind game of thought. It is the ‘bond’ at work.
Awakening to Reality: Realization and Experience and Non-Dual Experience from Different Perspectives
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω You are not in bliss so you are not realized. Experiences come and go, realization stays because it's something which is already there but you was not aware of this like the going in car and not feeling the breeze of air but when you open window there ...See More
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω
"Do not get it literally otherwise you will miss the point because of attachment to different concept you will only receive people thru them not the way they are."
I think you are talking about yourself and to yourself. If i take out your assumptions your comments vanish.
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Soh Who said 'I am not in bliss'? Bliss is definitely a characteristic of self-realization and abiding in Self. The bliss can be incredibly intense and 'intoxicating', no doubt. Sometimes I smile suddenly because it is so blissful. Sometimes I wake up from the intense bliss of Presence in sleep. (yes, even in sleep, the bliss can be super intense)
In any case, your question "who is witnessing" presumes a 'Subject' who is witnessing, but Buddhadharma leads us to a realization that 'witnessing is merely manifestation' without a background Subject. The background Subject is seen through... dropped. But there is no denial of the 'witnessing' or 'pure awareness'. It's only the wrong view of duality and inherency that is seen through.
I'm very busy this week so I will not be replying any more for some time, I'm sure others can have a nice discussion with you.
I will leave you with a few more quotes from Thusness:
84. RE: Is there an absolute reality? [Skarda 4 of 4]
Mar 27 2009, 9:15 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2009, 9:15 AM EDT
Hi theprisonergreco,
First is what exactly is the ‘background’? Actually it doesn’t exist. It is only an image of a ‘non-dual’ experience that is already gone. The dualistic mind fabricates a ‘background’ due to the poverty of its dualistic and inherent thinking mechanism. It ‘cannot’ understand or function without something to hold on to. That experience of the ‘I’ is a complete, non-dual foreground experience.
When the background subject is understood as an illusion, all transience phenomena reveal themselves as Presence. It is like naturally 'vipassanic' throughout. From the hissing sound of PC, to the vibration of the moving MRT train, to the sensation when the feet touches the ground, all these experiences are crystal clear, no less “I AM” than “I AM”. The Presence is still fully present, nothing is denied. -:) So the “I AM” is just like any other experiences when the subject-object split is gone. No different from an arising sound. It only becomes a static background as an after thought when our dualistic and inherent tendencies are in action.
The first 'I-ness' stage of experiencing awareness face to face is like a point on a sphere which you called it the center. You marked it.
Then later you realized that when you marked other points on the surface of a sphere, they have the same characteristics. This is the initial experience of non-dual. Once the insight of No-Self is stabilized, you just freely point to any point on the surface of the sphere -- all points are a center, hence there is no 'the' center. 'The' center does not exist: all points are a center.
After then practice move from 'concentrative' to 'effortlessness'. That said, after this initial non-dual insight, 'background' will still surface occasionally for another few years due to latent tendencies...
86. RE: Is there an absolute reality? [Skarda 4 of 4]
Mar 27 2009, 11:59 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2009, 11:59 AM EDT
To be more exact, the so called 'background' consciousness is that pristine happening. There is no a 'background' and a 'pristine happening'. During the initial phase of non-dual, there is still habitual attempt to 'fix' this imaginary split that does not exist. It matures when we realized that anatta is a seal, not a stage; in hearing, always only sounds; in seeing always only colors, shapes and forms; in thinking, always only thoughts. Always and already so. -:)
24. RE: The mind and the watcher
Apr 7 2009, 5:46 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:57 PM EDT
Gozen wrote: "I AM: Paradoxically, one feels at the same time that one is both essentially untouched by all phenomena and yet intimately at one with them. As the Upanishad says "Thou are That."
1.a. Body and Mind as Constructs: Another way to look at this is to observe that all compound things -- including one's own body and mind -- are **objects to awareness.** That is to say, from the "fundamental" point of view of primordial awareness, or True Self, even body and mind are **not self.**"
Thusness:
Ha Gozen, I re-read the post and saw **not self**, I supposed u r referring to anatta then I have to disagree.... However I agree with what that u said from the Vedanta (True Self) standpoint. But going into it can make it appears unnecessary complex.
As a summary, I see anatta as understanding the **transience** as Awareness by realizing that there is no observer apart from the observed. Effectively it is referring to the experience of in seeing, only scenery, no seer. In hearing, only sound, no hearer. The experience is quite similar to “Thou are That” except that there is no sinking back to a Source as it is deemed unnecessary. Full comfort is found in resting completely as the transience without even the slightest need to refer back to a source. For the source has always been the manifestation due to its emptiness nature.
All along there is no dust alighting on the Mirror; the dust has always been the Mirror. We fail to recognize the dust as the Mirror when we are attached to a particular speck of dust and call it the ”Mirror”; When a particular speck of dust becomes special, then all other pristine happening that are self-mirroring suddenly appears dusty.
Anything further, we will have to take it private again.
- http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/.../emptiness...
Awakening to Reality: Emptiness as Viewless View and Embracing the Transience
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, are you from HoM cult? Just curious....
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Viorica Doina Neacsu yes. I'm talking to myself if you would realize it truly as it is not as just ego-concept to put wall between consciousness you would know the truth of what I'm speaking here, just do not get to personal otherwise this talk will sn...See More
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, in all respect i notice that your comments are contradictory. First you suggest "Do not get it literally otherwise you will miss the point" and then " just do not get to personal otherwise this talk will snowball into ugly ways so keep this in mind".
Those are the only two ways to read a comment, literally or personal. Please decide what you expect from me. Thank you and have a great day!
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Soh Anatta realization is the most direct, non-conceptual touch of awareness as manifestation, anything else is indirect.
You may have non-conceptual glimpse of Awareness, or even rest stably in Self in nirvikalpa samadhi, but the path of directness and effortlessness only begins with anatta realization.
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Soh Even "abiding as Self" is indirect because it postulates a state to get back to.
As Thusness wrote in 2009:
"Many like to talk about the Natural State and direct path. I am a non-sectarian and I do not believe in monopoly over truth but still I see Buddhism's Dependent Origination most profound. Over the years, I have enough conversations, discussions and mail correspondences. It has come to a point that I retract from all these and resort to being a “”PasserBy” . My advice to those attempting to engage in the direct path is not to take it as a short cut as in one of my reply to AEN:
Hi AEN,
I do not usually reply people about spiritual stuff but I sense the confusion in Mikael's mail to you.
It is advisable to correctly point out to him that there is no short cut to direct path.
In the most direct path, Awareness is already and always at rest. In the most direct path, whatever manifests is Awareness; there is no "in Awareness" and there is no such thing as going deeper in Awareness or resting in Awareness. Anything "going deeper" or "resting" is nothing direct. Nothing more than the illusionary appearances of 'hierarchy' caused by the inherent and dualistic tendency of understanding things. It is more 'gradual' than 'direct'. Therefore have the right view first before we talk too much about the direct path so that we do not fall into such views. Next clearly understand the cause that blinds us then have direct authentication of our pristine nature so that we will not be misled.
By the way, non-discrimination does not deny us from clear discernment. An enlightenment person is not one that cannot differentiate 'left' from 'right'.
When we say 'rest in the natural state', we must not postulate as if there is 'state' where the mind can access and rest. There is no such state. There is no entry and exit point nor is there a behind background for us to rest our mind. We are talking about a direct realization of our luminous yet empty nature. It defies all subject-object and inherent view. If we want to bypass 'this step of firm establishment of right view', just make sure we are able to correctly understand our pristine nature when glimpses of our nature dawn; it is easily distorted and misinterpreted and that is why dependent origination is taught.
Dependent Origination demolishes hierarchy; brings the absolute to the same level as the transience. See the absolute as nothing more special than an arising thought ,a subsiding sound, a passing scent. It opens up all sense doors and see all moments, any time and anywhere as entry point to our Buddha Nature. It flattens the 3 states of waking, sleeping and dreaming and see movement and stillness as one.
And
That is what 'Natural State', 'No Mind' and 'One Taste' are about. We do not on one hand talk about natural state, naked awareness and on the other hand talk about a resting state or access to a higher samadhi. There is no resting place and no deeper samadhi to access. All states are equally pure, pristine and empty, therefore no preference, no movement and nothing gain. Such is the direct path, anything other than that is 'gradual'. "
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Viorica Doina Neacsu I suggest not picking up about "me" and "I" because you creating more karma and suffering by that. Just face it what I'm saying and do not attach to much ego-opinion to it to defense it but drop your coins to the conversation. I'm looking for realized person not chit-chat about ignorance so that what I expect from you if you ask me, but do whatever you wish to do.
Soh I realized Anatta when I was teenage and it was like steroids, it's true. I realized emptiness, fullness, atman, open bindu on the right side of my head (I do not found explanation for that experience but this is where from my jnana/knowledge of reality comes of Truth) but still these kinds of realization stay with me but they are not blissful (or only for some time). Once I attained savikalpa samadhi in between of sohaja, but now I'm seeking method/pointers so I can stabilize that bliss and not slick out from it. If someone realized can help me with it I would be glad. I experienced all states that are possible to experience by yogis, sounds, visuals, god's appearing in different states etc. but this is mere illusion of mind and I always detached for that things. Three states only stay with me, first is anatta, no self as gate but anatta experience gone only that it left me with "something" which I'm always conscious and it's pleasant, after emptiness which I go thru anatta i realized myself and energy moved to ajna. Now I understand all knowledge about life and different worlds (lokas) but it's still nothing. After that I realized that I'm everything and nothing which leave me blissful and fulfilled it was it for sure and no doubt moment of enlightenment, but after sometime somehow I slipped away from it not because it's was come and go but I unattached myself from this to different form - like in reincarnation but still in the body. For me being in bliss is indivertible with enlightenment because you directly know and see maya and thru maya and you are happy because of that as person who woke up from bad dream which thought it was real. As you can understand my background compare nad point me out if you can to push me into that or so I can push myself into that dissolution when I and no-I do not exists and when I say bliss I'm not saying about jumping and being happy or on heroine, if you know the bliss of enlightenment you know it's beyond bliss.
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Viorica Doina Neacsu Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω, thank you for all your suggestions. I don't use to have suggestions if no one is asking for but when it is the case i remind members to be polite if loving-kindness is too much.
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Soh As Thusness said in 2012 in a meeting with other like minded spiritual aspirants which I translated and transcribed, "...when I experienced the I AMness, then I AM Everything. At that time I very much wanted to become a monk. When I first experienced, it lasted for many days, not just (hours?) Then when it rained, I suddenly strip off all my clothes, then I go out and get drenched, and kept laughing and smiling. Because I think I am everything – I like being (dripped) by the rain. Then I thought, if there is a waterfall, I can just sit there and how nice that will be! Then I saw a dog, I really wanted to go and touch it. That was when I was 17 years old, suddenly I had this... (?) intoxicated. So when the bond of the consciousness is being released, (?). Then when I meditate, you will not believe the kind of bliss that I undergo. That kind of intoxication, it is just like taking drugs.... ....and you yourself is like melted like that, into a state of clear bliss... there is this total presence, and this pure presence must be able to maintain and sustain for a substantial period for you to understand the bliss."
I have experienced similar bliss. He too shared his many experiences about seeing other realms, Buddhas, recalling past lives, etc. But those are side effects of samadhi and not the main point of spirituality.
I agree the Nirvikalpa samadhi is incredibly blissful... and certainly one can train in abiding in samadhi. However it later came to me that samadhi (though important) is not the entirety of the path to liberation.. samadhi can be blissful but other bonds of consciousness is dissolved through deeper insights and leads to greater release and effortlessness.
We have another member here Seraph Tai, director of the institute of transpersonal psychology, he too had Self-Realization since 1993 filled with incredibly bliss and after many years he attained mastery of Samadhi. But he also had further realization into anatta and further more recently which helped a lot. What you described is the formless Causal Self-realization, however, 'Emptiness' in Buddhism have a different meaning.
His article documents his experience of Nirvikalpa samadhi and insights you may want to look into it: https://app.box.com/s/7u47emus4osjxzpnqs03 (his description of Samadhi starts with 'Part One: the Causal')
SeraphDraft.pdf - File Shared from Box
app.box.com
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω It's funny because some people are going other-side of the stick, my first spiritual experience Anatta, someone realized samadhi then anatta it's very weird. For me samadhi is ultimate, because they is nothing beyond. What are methods to push myself deeply into that state? Control of samadhi would be very good. In my tradition sohaj samadhi is ultimate enlightenment when you are into natural state of bliss but still active and liberated from death and brith and that how this state is.
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Soh There are many degrees of no-self. Some are talking about impersonality, some nondual, some anatta, we have different meaning for the terms here. Maybe you can describe your experience?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω I thought I explained them. You mean Anatta experience or samadhi? I weird because I never found people who wrote about opening the right heart and being absorbed and guess it's going too fast but you can't really miss it, I only found it in ramana maharshi book.
My problem is that there is suffering (even more because regular joe do not have experience how deep existence can be) but there is a lot of experience but I'm not being absorbed by it thinking that I'm something else then that which absorbed me into the endless bliss and I could not figure it out who to get absorbed here and now.
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Soh I wrote in my e-book before it is similar to what you experience:
"...its totally formless except sheer presence and bliss, sort of like deep sleep state where all contents and dreams have dissolved... there may also be a sense of becoming absorbed into the heart center. At first I was curious about this and later found out that in tibetan texts it is described that in state of sleep and death, the winds enter the heart chakra followed by the revelation of clear light."
My friend John Ahn https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001584197956... who had similar realizations (I AM, non dual, anatta, total exertion etc) spoke of similar experiences.
I discussed this with him last year:
John Ahn
8/11, 9:50pm
John Ahn
pure stable awareness where everything is seen as illusion spontaneously manifesting??
actually i enter this like weeks ago
not fully of course
but i can now just sit and dissolve everything into the heart awareness
this is very much similar to kunlun practice
kunlun is awakening this heart awareness
Soh
8/11, 9:52pm
Soh
i see..
John Ahn
8/11, 9:52pm
John Ahn
total heart bliss
its really beautiful and evreything is total unity presence but you and thusness are always anatta anatta anatta
but in many ways this does continue
the heart bliss but more subtly and more effortless with anatta
Soh
8/11, 9:54pm
Soh
heart awareness - does it really mean centered in the heart, or?
just nondual awareness
John Ahn
8/11, 9:54pm
John Ahn
yeah
Soh
8/11, 9:54pm
Soh
yeah = ?
John Ahn
8/11, 9:54pm
John Ahn
at least thats my experience
its in solar plexus region
Soh
8/11, 9:54pm
Soh
ah yes. i experienced that
John Ahn
8/11, 9:54pm
John Ahn
pure awareness explodes there
ok yeah so i think in practice like maintaining pure awareness
*its to remain in this pure bliss consciosness and dissolve all karmic momentum
so they say go to cave and do meditation just in this state for years
like ramana did
John Ahn
Studied at New York University
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Soh With regards to Anatta, I wrote before long ago:
"First I do not see Anatta as merely a freeing from personality sort of experience as you mentioned; I see it as that a self/agent, a doer, a thinker, a watcher, etc, cannot be found apart from the moment to moment flow of manifestation or as its commonly expressed as ‘the observer is the observed’; there is no self apart from arising and passing. A very important point here is that Anatta/No-Self is a Dharma Seal, it is the nature of Reality all the time -- and not merely as a state free from personality, ego or the ‘small self’ or a stage to attain. This means that it does not depend on the level of achievement of a practitioner to experience anatta but Reality has always been Anatta and what is important here is the intuitive insight into it as the nature, characteristic, of phenomenon (dharma seal).
To put further emphasis on the importance of this point, I would like to borrow from the Bahiya Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/.../kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html) that ‘in the seeing, there is just the seen, no seer’, ‘in the hearing, there is just the heard, no hearer’ as an illustration. When a person says that I have gone beyond the experiences from ‘I hear sound’ to a stage of ‘becoming sound’, he is mistaken. When it is taken to be a stage, it is illusory. For in actual case, there is and always is only sound when hearing; never was there a hearer to begin with. Nothing attained for it is always so. This is the seal of no-self. Therefore to a non dualist, the practice is in understanding the illusionary views of the sense of self and the split. Before the awakening of prajna wisdom, there will always be an unknowing attempt to maintain a purest state of 'presence'. This purest presence is the 'how' of a dualistic mind -- its dualistic attempt to provide a solution due to its lack of clarity of the spontaneous nature of the unconditioned. It is critical to note here that both the doubts/confusions/searches and the solutions that are created for these doubts/confusions/searches actually derive from the same cause -- our karmic propensities of ever seeing things dualistically"
Bahiya Sutta: About Bahiya
www.accesstoinsight.org
Thus have I heard. At one time the Lord was staying near Savatthi in the Jeta Wo... See More
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Yes, it's like a death excatly like you first post about it said. It's like sleep and death, you are dead then but yet alive that why you see that there is no death at all and you are immortal and can do everything you want because you already dead in the body but body still have karma to workout so that why it's called jivamukti - soul that is liberated yet in his body but totally free.
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Soh "I could not figure it out who to get absorbed here and now."
You mean 'how'?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Yes, I mean how to do it and stay here to resolve all karma. That is the aim of advaita of ramana maharshi to be in sohaja samadhi in atma-loka which is that the same but samadhi is more pointer to experience and atma loka mean that blissful space and just live liberated immortal life like these ones in satya yuga.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω I forgot true sadhana which now I realize if you can't accept - forgive, know it may sound cheezy but forgive is the way of dissolving mind which is hiding true nature of ourself, but do not say I forgive you or something because it's big ego, just forgive and let it act thru forgivness. If you not forgive you will not dissolve.
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David Vardy Anatta extinguishes the question of 'how' in recognizing the absence of the agent. Who is asking "how to do it and stay here to resolve all karma"?
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Jody Radzik Drop all the conceptualizations about what realization is and about what it is like as an experience, and you'll be way ahead of most folks.
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Jody Radzik The mind does not hide the "true nature of ourself," the mind IS our true nature. It's the conceptual objects that are carried in the mind that are the problem, and the conceptual objects that the mind carries about realization are the biggest problem in nonduality spirituality.
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Jody Radzik For instance, the idea that the mind can hide the "true nature of ourself" is precisely one of those occluding conceptual objects.
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Jody Radzik Thinking about realization and what it is like as an experience does more to prevent realization than all the drug dens and brothels in the world combined.
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Roy Arne What he describes is ‘I AMness’ and not Anatta.
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Soh I'm going to meditate... and sleep. Just curious Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω how old are you (relatively)?
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω I experienced Anatta, It's just recognition that you are not what you think you are so you regonition that you are not, you are not that "I" but it will not liberate you because your energies become very feeble they will attach to the subtle bodies, An...See More
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Roy Arne Read this article
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.ro/.../on-anatta...
Awakening to Reality: On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous...
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.nl
Simple brilliance~thank you for this insightful sharing that is mirrored innerly... See More
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David Vardy I AMness includes seeing 'you aren't who you think you are', cuts through the mistaken identity of a person, but reestablishes the identity as a background, a witness. Anatta cuts through the illusion of identity, not only the mistaken identity.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω So any of this gates and ways should annihilte the mind but it's not doing it permanetly. Anatta cannot kill pure awarness which you are mistaken to be a little "I".
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Roy Arne The mind is not annihilated. The perception is changing. As David said, anatta cuts through the illusion of a background, a witness and it is realized that that was always the case.
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Roy Arne Ramana is guiding to ‘I AMness’.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω I agree but when you realize Anatta is not end itself because you will anyway create another ego couple days later to month with a bit space between mind and body.
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Albert Hong There is a distinction made here between a realization and say an experience.
And it would be wise to distinguish the two. As this solves your basic question.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω You are realized when experience appears otherwise you just thinking about it.
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Albert Hong Alright. Have fun in the sophistic cave.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω Sophistic way is when content of your mind change but experience of reality do not. How do you know you are realized without experience?
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Albert Hong They are all interdependent. View, realization and experience.
It's a common theme in spiritual mumbo jumbo to segregate experience from concept.
But they all play into each other.
But we can emphasize one over the other and form a loop.
Realization cuts the underlying assumptions. If we focus say on experience then we can have a no mind experience where we are liberated for brief moments or days and then find ourselves in bondage. This results because we are focusing on experience rather than the underlying momentum of ignorance.
If we cut the ignorance or the assumption that there was a self to begin with then there is no going back or losing. Because its seen that there was no self to gain or lose to begin with. That can be a pretty view. Or nice sounding words. And one can even use that view into experience to have the actualization.
It's all a made up solution for a made up problem.
Like even me expressing this. I'm expressing as such because there is a certain posturing of views present within the writing above.
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Bdcrtgb Rcnrcrrdfvnb "Anatta cuts through the illusion of identity, not only the mistaken identity." David Vardy, I loved that one!!
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Soh Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω you don't seem to understand anatta... to be clearer of the terms we use (especially it can be quite confusing since there are in fact different degrees of no-self) I'll share an article I wrote before:
...See More
Awakening to Reality: Insight Diagnosis Simplified
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
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Soh Once anatta is realized, it cannot be unseen, and the experience of No-Mind becomes effortless and natural.. definitely not some mere peak experiences.
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Ἡσυχαστής ἡσυχάζω It's cuts only of false identity because there is neither true or false identity. No-I it's the same as I'm in true from. Anatta do not make you no-mind , maybe for a while. You are talking no-mind but you think about past or the future so better let we see experience the way they are. I agree that Once anatta is realized it cannot be unseen which true I or no-I experience and sees cleary.
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Soh You are talking about an experience, right now Anatta is actualized all the time here, all the time, in seeing just the vivid self-luminous colours (even saying that is too much) without an observer, just the total exertion, action of typing, sound of 'da da da' keyboard typing... (not the words)... no doer.
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