Friday, August 8, 2014

The "I" thought vs Observer/Center

Mr. J.C.
June 22 · Edited

I originally posted:

The "I" thought vs Observer/Center:

It occurs to me lately that thought obscures sati, but other than that, the "I" thought has very little relation with the illusion of an observer/center.

I've been melting into centerlessness quite frequently lately, but when brain chatter does arise it seems to having nothing to do with any notion of an observer.

Has anyone else noticed differences along these lines?

Soh responded with this dialog with John Tan:

John Tan

Is there the center without movement of thoughts, without noticing, without attention?

When there is movement of thoughts, noticing and attention, is centerlessness possible?

Since 99.9% of our time is taken up by attention, thoughts, noticing, awaring, how is one in to remain in centerlessness is the question.

We seldom realize that it is our view that conditions us, the tendency that gives rise to the "center". With the strong view at the back of our mind, there is little hope of overcoming the center.

To free ourselves from the center, work with a fluid, empty and DO view of every arising...see every situation, every event, every action as dependent arising...moving my body in yoga stretch, the stream of moving sensations manifest according to the movement of my a flowing river...without centre and fixation...appears to form and disappear but never truly arise.

It is always the occasional fixation that gives rise to the sense of self ... When insight, view and experience are one, there is just the movement, then there is centerlessness.

When you breathe in total exertion, is there a center?


John Tan
John Tan

What gives rise to the center?

When you attempt to settle anything less than the total exertion of the moment, the sense of "center" arises.

John Tan
John Tan

Try it...don't think...with your anatta insight...breathe and move...fully integrate into the must come from insight and the change in view into total exertion.
UnlikeUnlike ·

    You, Piotr Ludwiński, Tan Jui Horng and 2 others like this.
    Tan Jui Horng "When you attempt to settle anything less than the total exertion of the moment, the sense of "center" arises."

    June 22 at 5:10pm · Unlike · 2
    Faraz Ahmed Wow ! Great, about your feeling centrelessness Justin. What practice did you follow to achieve this? Any pointers??
    June 22 at 7:17pm · Like
    Mr. J.C. Faraz Ahmed - The most important thing was realizing anatta along the lines of the bahiya sutra. Without anatta realization I would have no basis for really understanding what centrelessness might be.
    June 22 at 7:39pm · Like
    Faraz Ahmed so you just kept contemplating on the bahiya sutta. Did you also practice vipassana or samatha?
    June 22 at 7:42pm · Like
    Mr. J.C. I was doing a lot of noting vipassana at the time. The specific breakthrough occurred while I was doing vipassana using "awareness" as the unwavering object of concentration.
    June 22 at 7:52pm · Like · 2
    Mr. J.C. To be honest, I don't even know what that Awareness is now, but it worked at the time. It may be at that time that I had identified Awareness as Self and it just took intent looking at. I'm not sure.
    June 22 at 7:55pm · Like · 1
    Faraz Ahmed hmm, thanks.
    June 22 at 8:02pm · Like
    Mr. J.C. For me to avoid having confused thoughts arise regarding centerlessness I have to remember that this experience is always complete, even when it doesn't seem complete. Otherwise some confused seeking energy will arise.
    June 22 at 8:20pm · Like

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