Sunday, August 10, 2014

Anatta is Truly a Seal

John Hooper
February 24

"Anatta is truly a seal." -- could anyone explain this in more detail for me? Many thanks.
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    Stuffs RedTurtle likes this.
    Nicholas Mason No.
    February 24 at 9:26pm · Like
    Tom Radcliffe Well all conditioned things are transient. All conditioned things are suffering. All things are not self - it is absolutely true. It ends the argument. It seals the letter.
    February 24 at 9:26pm · Like · 1
    Albert Hong Anatta is always already so.

    Meaning its our habitual ignorance that assumes the subject/object duality onto perception.

    When the assumption of an enduring, independently existent entity is seen to be merely a convention on the basis of moving/shifting skandhas.

    Then the whole jig is up. Nothing gained or lost.
    February 24 at 9:31pm · Unlike · 5
    Nicholas Mason ^All of that is false.
    February 24 at 10:42pm · Like
    Viorica Doina Neacsu Anatta means the absence of a supposedly permanent and unchanging self. It is a seal because the absence of a self was always the case.
    February 24 at 10:46pm · Like · 1
    Nicholas Mason Incorrect.
    February 24 at 10:47pm · Like · 1
    Viorica Doina Neacsu Right.
    February 24 at 10:47pm · Like
    Viorica Doina Neacsu No.
    February 24 at 10:48pm · Like
    Nicholas Mason
    February 24 at 10:50pm · Like · 1
    Viorica Doina Neacsu
    Viorica Doina Neacsu's photo.
    February 24 at 10:52pm · Like · 2
    John Hooper Ah, the block feature comes to the rescue yet again!
    February 24 at 11:29pm · Like
    Tom Radcliffe Sabbe dhamma annatta ti. Is that false?
    February 25 at 4:18am · Like
    Dannon Flynn I was in a conversation with a luciferian who was criticizing Buddhism thinking that the aim of Buddhism was to annihilate the self or to otherwise get rid of the self, while Luciferianism aims to preserve the self against the universe lol. I said "No, the self never existed in the first place. There is no annihilation of the self." That is why it is seal.
    February 25 at 4:19am · Edited · Like · 2
    Albert Hong
    February 25 at 4:22am · Unlike · 11
    Viorica Doina Neacsu hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
    February 25 at 4:27am · Like
    Dannon Flynn Oh now I get it! lol
    February 25 at 5:33am · Like · 1
    Robert Healion What is Anatta?
    Anatta means the absence of a supposedly permanent and unchanging self.
    Notice the use of supposedly.

    In how to attain they mention having firm conviction. Why? as this is necessary to practice against all adverseness. Are you going to practice compassion if you have doubt about the final goal. Yes it is interesting have a coffee, chat impermanence, go to a group hit it off with one, discuss the nature of not self… Then something bad happens, all you Sunday morning coffee chat evaporates in the heat of extreme emotion. What do they teach in Lam Rim, ‘even for the sake of maintaining there good name they will take life’. Crushed between the preservation of self or the teaching which way will you go….

    So the experience of emptiness as a satorie like experience removes all miscomprehensions as to what Buddha was trying to teach. Now the sky is truly blue, water is truly wet and the ground is truly hard, not just because someone tells your so. Recognising the non-existence of a resplendent self what are you going to defend…

    You have had a seal placed on your understanding that can never be removed.
    February 25 at 8:06am · Edited · Like

    quote from thusness:

    Indeed Buddha Bra,

    At first 'effort' to focus on experiencing on the vividness of 'sensation' in the most immediate and direct way will remain. It will be 'concentrative' for some time before it turns effortless.

    There are a few points I would like to share:

    1. Insight that 'anatta' is a seal and not a stage must arise to further progress into the 'effortless' mode. That is, anatta is the ground of all experiences and has always been so, no I. In seeing, always only seen, in hearing always only sound and in thinking, always only thoughts. No effort required and never was there an 'I'.

    2. It is better not to treat sensation as 'real' as the word 'real' in Buddhism carries a different meaning. It is rather a moment of vivid, luminous presence but nothing 'real'. It may be difficult to realise why is this important but it will become clearer in later phase of our progress.

    3. Do go further into the aspect of dependent origination and emptiness to further 'purify' the experience of anatta. Not only is there no who, there is no where and when in all manifestation.

    Whatever said are nothing authentic. Just a sharing and happy Journey!
    Awakening to Reality: The Buddha on Non-Duality
    This passage has been most useful to me personally. The challenge is to constant... See More
    February 26 at 1:42pm · Like · 3 · Remove Preview
    Soh If anatta is a state, then it can be entered and left, like a jhana samadhi.

    If anatta is a seal, then it can only be realized, to be always already the case. In this case there is no entry nor exit.
    February 26 at 1:50pm · Edited · Like · 5
    Josh Brown Labeling things prevents you from experiencing them.
    February 26 at 1:54pm · Like
    Viorica Doina Neacsu Yes and no, it is depending on our conditionings.
    February 26 at 7:44pm · Edited · Like · 1
    Stuffs RedTurtle Eww, I've never made a decision in my life... It's only craving desire making these decisions isn't it?
    Desire for virtuous energy, desire for negative energy, self satisfaction desire..
    February 26 at 9:07pm · Like
    Stuffs RedTurtle What does that say for foresight? Desire for change or aversion to pain, which is still a desire.. Yuck I have an awful feeling in the pit if my stomach now
    February 26 at 9:08pm · Like
    Jack Steen McKeteli Hmmm...much words leading to nowhere. Accoring to the principles of buddhism there is 3 Dharma Seals. These seals (mudra) are impermanence (anitya), nonself (anatman) and, there is two "schools", one saying the third is suffering, (dukkha) and the other: nirvana. What are these 3 seals? They are seals that every buddhist teaching has to contain to be a genuine buddhist teaching. So nothing deeply esoteric in this, more a catchy tool to keep in mind while teaching, listening, writing, reading, interpretating, translating and understanding. The next step of course now is to make clear to oneself what these concepts mean in buddhism. That´s another story.
    February 26 at 9:58pm · Like
    John Hooper It sounds like a seal is like the rope and the snake, that once clearly seen, it is done, there is no more back and forth, no more aversion. The rope is simply what it has always been: a rope. There is no need to deal with it any longer. There never was. It was the word "seal" that intrigued me.
    February 27 at 8:42pm · Unlike · 2
    Viorica Doina Neacsu Yes John, that is the meaning of the word "seal"
    February 27 at 8:43pm · Like
    Robert Healion Soh said
    'If anatta is a state, then it can be entered and left, like a jhana samadhi.
    If anatta is a seal, then it can only be realized, to be always already the case. In this case there is no entry nor exit.'

    If anatta is a state then there is no one to enter and no one to leave.
    If it is a seal then you are referencing a I consciousness awareness.

    I prefer Alberts analysis
    Uggh Uggh Uggh. throw me a fish..
    February 27 at 9:09pm · Like
    Soh No ideas what are you saying Robert. If it is a state then it is merely an altered state of consciousness, it will come and go. Anatta is what is always the case, never can a self be pinned down within or apart from all dharmas.
    February 27 at 9:14pm · Like · 1
    Robert Healion If it is a state, there is no I self consciousness then you are hard put to postulate an entry or exit as there is no referencing. if it is an altered state of consciousness then it is not anatta.
    February 27 at 9:16pm · Like
    Robert Healion No I will retract. the altered state of consciousness is all we have as functioning individuals. however the concept of no mirror awareness, the 6ths, suggests that anatta is not a conceptual understanding. emptiness is emptiness. no second or third state.
    February 27 at 9:21pm · Like
    Soh If anatta is a state then you are merely talking about an experience of forgetting self. It is merely a temporary experience, the sense of self will return. Anatta is not talking about such experiences. Anatta is talking about the truth that no I can be found within or apart from every phenomena, every experience.
    February 27 at 9:57pm · Like · 4

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