Thursday, June 6, 2013

Lucid Dreaming, Dreams Of Clarity & More

I've had many episodes in the past where I was in conscious lucid dreams, and then the lucid dreams disappeared into pure non-dual Presence, pure knowingness, and it was profoundly blissful. Very very blissful. Samadhi like.

Last night, it was like that again, except the dreams never disappeared - I was walking to my dream toilet in profound bliss and awareness was totally transparent and non-dual - the entire dream toilet surroundings was experienced without subject/object dichotomy, there is no sense of a center or circumference left, only vivid transparency. And it was intensely blissful...

The difference between this and previous experiences is that in previous instances, there was a dissolution into formless pure presence, while this time it is like non-dual clear light is experienced within dreams instead of dissolution of dream.

Just a sharing. I'm not a good practitioner, this sort of thing doesn't occur on a daily basis. I'm sure many are more experienced than I am.
Like ·  · Unfollow Post · January 24 at 10:31pm
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Piotr Ludwiński, Albert Hong, Rob Matthews and 12 others like this.

Soh: By the way, not toilet, its bathroom. (In Singapore we use the terms synonymously, lol)
January 24 at 10:36pm · Like

Dannon Flynn: This is the clear light of sleep. 
January 24 at 10:37pm · Like · 1

Soh: Found a passage from Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche's 'The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep'' book, it is precise in description:


There is a third type of dream that occurs when one is far along the path, the clear light dream. It arises from the primordial prana in the central channel. The clear light is generally spoken of in the teachings about sleep yoga and indicates a state free from dream, thought, and image, but there is also a clear light dream in which the dreamer remains in the nature of mind. This is not an easy accomplishment; the practitioner must be very stable in non-dual awareness before the clear light dream arises. Gyalshen Milu Samleg, the author of important commentaries on the Mother Tantra, wrote that he practiced consistently for nine years before he began to have clear light dreams. 

Developing the capacity for clear light dreams is similar to developing the capacity of abiding in the non-dual presence of rigpa during the day. In the beginning, rigpa and thought seem different, so that in the experience of rigpa there is no thought, and if thought arises we are distracted and lose rigpa. But 
when stability in rigpa is developed, thought simply arises and dissolves without in the least obscuring rigpa; the practitioner remains in non-dual awareness. These situations are similar to learning to play the drum and bell together in ritual practice: in the beginning we can only do one at a time. If we play the bell, we lose the rhythm of the drum, and vice versa. After we are stable we can play both at the same time. 

The clear light dream is not the same as the dream of clarity, which, while arising from deep and relatively pure aspects of the mind and generated from positive karmic traces, still takes place in duality. The clear light dream, while emerging from the karmic traces of the past, does not result in dualistic experience. The practitioner does not reconstitute as an observing subject in relation to the dream as an object, nor as a subject in the world of the dream, but abides wholly integrated with non-dual rigpa. 

The differences in the three kinds of dreams may seem subtle. Samsaric dream arises from the individual's karmic traces and emotions, and all content of the dream is formed by those traces and emotions. The dream of clarity includes more objective knowledge, which arises from collective karmic traces and is available to consciousness when it is not entangled in personal karmic traces. The consciousness is then not bound by space and time and personal history, and the dreamer can meet with real beings, receive teachings from real teachers, and find information helpful to others as well as to him or herself. 

The clear light dream is not defined by the content of the dream, but is a clear light dream because there is no subjective dreamer or dream ego, nor any self in a dualistic relationship with the dream or the dream content. Although a dream arises, it is an activity of the mind that does not disturb the practitioner's stability in clear light.


"Although we define sleep as unconsciousness, the darkness and experiential blankness are not the essence of sleep. For the pure awareness that is our basis there is no sleep. When not afflicted with obscurations, dreams, or thoughts, the moving mind dissolves into the nature of mind; then, rather than the sleep of ignorance, clarity, peacefulness, and bliss arise. When we develop the ability to abide in that awareness we find that sleep is luminous. This luminosity is the clear light. It is our true nature. 

As explained in previous chapters, dreams arise from karmic traces. I used the analogy of light being projected through film to make movies, where the karmic traces are the photographs, awareness is the light that illuminates them, and the dreams are projected on the base (kunzhi*). Dream yoga develops lucidity in relationship to the dream images. But in sleep yoga there is no film and no projection. Sleep yoga is imageless. The practice is the direct recognition of awareness by awareness, light illuminating itself. It is luminosity without images of any kind. Later, when stability in the clear light is developed, even dream images will not distract the practitioner, and the dream period of sleep will also occur in the clear light. These dreams are then called clear light dreams, which are different than dreams of clarity. In clear light dreams, the clear light is not obscured. 

We lose the real sense of the clear light as soon as we conceptualize it or try to imagine it. There is neither subject nor object in the clear light. If there is any identification with a subject, then there is no entry into the clear light. Actually, nothing "enters" the clear light: the clear light is the base recognizing itself. There is neither "you" nor "it." Using dualistic language to describe the non- dual necessarily results in paradox. The only way to know the clear light is to know it directly."
January 24 at 11:51pm · Like · 3

Soh: I have lots of dreams of clarity as well (just had another one yesterday as well)... though they often tell me very helpful information about my practise, sometimes involve receiving teachings from teachers, and sometimes it shows future events which are very accurate, but there is not that sort of non-dual lucidity of clear light to those dreams.
January 25 at 12:06am · Edited · Like

Joel Rosenblum: Thanks for sharing, Soh. I have had the dissolving into pure presence dreams, but not yet the third type you speak of. I have also met with dhamma masters in a few dreams, which is always encouraging. It definitely helps for me to set my intentions and meditate before sleep, and then to wake up very early and repeat.
January 25 at 12:44am via mobile · Like · 1

Albert Hong: Soh i just had a dream where I ended up at some largr apartment complex then i was in the center of the apartments which became a large sangha of zen students. All lay folks. I saw grey robes and everyone was doing walking meditation.

It seems there is a certain kind of dream. It may be called lucid but even then. These dreams have a odd quality to them as if they were recollections or a higher order of dreaming. 

Either way I was very shocked to find a zen center in a random apartment complex with a huge sangha. 

There was a definite feel of being a visitor because they wrote my name down.

Anyways just some thoughts.
January 25 at 4:01am via mobile · Like · 1

Soh: Albert, do you mean you were recalling that sangha through dream? Have you found that zen center in real life?

The last time I dreamt of a zen center, I followed that dream and ended up going to that zen center (for the first time) that very day and saw the exact scene played out in my dream as I mentioned in

Awakening to Reality: Total Exertion
Munindra frequently reminded his students that thinking and meditation are not the same. He would inquire, “Do you want to think or do you want to meditate?” He made the distinction by speaking of two worlds: one of concept, the other of reality. “Mostly you’re living in the world of thoughts,” he s...
January 25 at 4:22am · Edited · Like · Remove Preview

Albert Hong: Nope. But i have dreamt places and found them in real life.

Another note i've had about five of these odd dreams. Each time after the dream i feel very refreshed as if i showered and rested well.

But i've never seen this place. The place was very magical or rather unconventional.
January 25 at 4:27am via mobile · Like · 1

Soh: Yes! I woke up very refreshed today as well.

The number of hours of sleep also decrease and you begin the day beaming with energy and radiance. Just as Thusness in 2007:

(1:23 AM) Thusness: for non-dual experiencer where there is complete letting go of the illusionary self, there is tremendous progress and if night they are able to, is there real progress?
(1:24 AM) Thusness: then they complete the first cycle. 
(1:24 AM) AEN: what u mean by first cycle
(1:25 AM) Thusness: almost 'be' in all 3 stages (waking, dream, deep sleep)
(1:25 AM) AEN: oic
(1:25 AM) AEN: wat u mean by cycles
(1:25 AM) Thusness: when u have a very deep sleep, what happened next morning?
(1:25 AM) AEN: very awake?
(1:25 AM) Thusness: what else?'
(1:25 AM) AEN: mind is clear?
(1:25 AM) AEN: dunno
(1:25 AM) Thusness: continue ...right
(1:26 AM) AEN: the mind becomes less active?
(1:26 AM) Thusness: awake, clear, fresh, energetic, vibrant
(1:26 AM) Thusness: aren't that the seven factors?
(1:26 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:26 AM) AEN: ya
(1:27 AM) Thusness: for a non-dual experiencer, the next day is even so.
(1:27 AM) Thusness: the intensity is even more fantastic
(1:27 AM) Thusness: if this is continuously sustained, will the sleep naturally be shortened?
(1:28 AM) AEN: ya
(1:28 AM) Thusness: isn't it natural?
(1:28 AM) AEN: yes
(1:28 AM) Thusness: isn't the seven factors of enlightenment maintained?
(1:28 AM) AEN: ya
(1:28 AM) Thusness: so know that what is right and correctly discerned.
(1:29 AM) Thusness: buddha's depth of clarity is unsurpassed
(1:29 AM) Thusness: we cannot compare one that has reached that stage of clarity


(3:01 AM) Thusness: and later stage when meditation is stabilized using non-dual and the door of impermanence, then there will be deep sleep with absolutely no problem but the no. of sleeping hours naturally lessen.
(3:02 AM) Thusness: and there is no problem like her case.
(3:02 AM) Thusness: but that is not a problem becoz of deep rest and sleep and allowing our emptiness to manifest.
(3:03 AM) Thusness: we will feel radiance bright instead of zoombieness....hehehe
January 25 at 5:05am · Edited · Like

Soh: Just found a passage in 2006 where Thusness described what I experienced. And he is very right in pointing out the vast difference between 1) maintaining a state of witnessing awareness in sleep, which is dualistic, or 2) lucid dream, as compared to 3) non-dual knowing in dream and sleep.

(12:15 AM) John: the strength in the waking state of total presence is the experience of all physical phenomenon arising as pure awareness
(12:16 AM) John: but when in dreams, such experience must sustain
(12:16 AM) John: that is instead of the physical appearance of phenomenon arising, it is symbolic apperance of arising as the manifestation of pure awareness.
(12:16 AM) John: not a form of intellectual knowledge
(12:17 AM) John: just like the experience of anatta in waking state, the same experience extended to dreamstate.
(12:17 AM) John: it is entirely different.
(12:17 AM) John: it is difficult for me to tell u.
(12:18 AM) John: when one experience the experience of no-self during waking state, one experience total nothingness and absolute transparency but has no single doubt that all and 
everything is awareness.
(12:19 AM) John: means he is completely clear yet totally transparent
(12:19 AM) John: in dreams, it is difficult to maintain totally no-self and the symbols as pure awareness
(12:19 AM) John: that is very different from being aware in dreams
(12:19 AM) John: this is dualistic still in dream state.
(12:20 AM) John: that experience of anatta in waking state is not being experienced in dream state.
(12:20 AM) John: this is different from being aware in dreams like an observer.
(12:21 AM) John: one step higher than lucid dreams
(12:21 AM) John: u get what i mean or not?


(12:23 AM) John: and most ppl mistaken it as maintaining presence and awareness in dreams as in the form of passive witness


(11:39 PM) John: that is maintaining presence
(11:39 PM) John: not sustaining the experience of anatta
(11:40 PM) John: the total transparency but as everything
(11:40 PM) AEN: icic
(11:40 PM) AEN: but anatta is also presence isnt it?
(11:40 PM) John: anatta is the experience of total presence
(11:40 PM) AEN: oic then wats the difference between maintain presence and anatta
(11:40 PM) John: in total different forms every moment
(11:41 PM) John: no... anatta is the experience of total presence.
(11:42 PM) John: manifesting in different forms from moment to moment. It is the experience of total and absolute transparency, without boundary and limit.
(11:42 PM) John: total vividness and clarity.
(11:43 PM) John: absolute transparency is difficult to maintain and can only result from increasing loosening of the bond i told u. Not the result of effort.
(11:43 PM) John: that is why this state must be completely and fully stabilized during waking state.
(11:46 PM) John: total transparent awareness is experiencing everything as awareness.
(11:46 PM) John: and during dreamstate this is the case too.
(11:47 PM) John: this is very difficult to achieve. Not maintaining wakefulness and a sense of presence during the 3 states.
January 25 at 5:13am · Edited · Like

John Ahn: This is great! Don't be so humble, you are a great practitioner. Many people owe much gratitude to your efforts.
January 25 at 5:23am · Like · 1

Soh: Well thanks for the compliment... but I know the journey is still a long one 
January 25 at 5:34am · Edited · Like

Tommy McNally: Something similar happened to me a few weeks ago, the dream collapsed consciously revealing what you've described as "formless pure presence". I was totally lucid throughout but there was just an instant where the entire 'thing' literally collapsed, like something out of the movie "Inception", leaving 'something' I can't even describe. Apparently it's possible to realize the Sambhogakaya through the sort of lucidity you describe so it sounds like a really good indicator. Thanks for posting this!
January 25 at 7:37am · Like · 1

Dannon Flynn: Soh, this may be off topic, but "following" dreams like you did is a very interesting practice. Most folks would think that the dream-state and waking life are completely independent of each other, or that only causes in waking life can effect dreams, but not the other way around. When one "follows" dreams like you did one becomes aware that the dream-state and waking life are also completely seamlessly interdependent as well. One sees underlying patterns. It seems as if one can shape one's waking life by manipulating dreams. Or that one can let dreams guide one through waking life, exploring chains of cause and effect in dreams in order to make wise choices. It seems as if dreams can tell the future or see into the future.
January 25 at 12:50pm · Edited · Like

Soh: Wrote this in UT:

There was another more recent experience but involving sleep paralysis... you know sometimes in sleep paralysis you may feel a bit frightened and creeped out... or there may be a sense that there are other beings around (called 'the intruder' according to wiki on sleep paralysis). I felt that 'intruder' thing again but this time there was no fear and I gave rise to the intention to pervade the whole room with its apparent beings with the bright luminosity of mind/awareness. And because I was conscious and kept releasing, there was no fear and instead sleep paralysis turned into bliss and luminosity like the previous experiences, awareness was again experienced as vivid transparency, centerless and borderless, no observer/observed duality just vivid transparency appearing as what appeared to be my dark room surroundings.

Then suddenly a weird white flash of light came, very strong and simultaneously there was this almost frightening BOOM! like a nuclear bomb exploded... very very loud sound. Though shocking there was not really fear in it but a thought arose right then "what the hell happened"... but later on I woke up... I found out later its not an uncommon thing, think its called "Exploding head syndrome". Happens in astral travel and sleep paralysis. Incidentally astral travel and sleep paralysis are linked (have experienced OBE in sleep paralysis).

But the main thing is that throughout the whole thing there was no fear and it was blissful... because sleep, or rather sleep paralysis, became clear light.

So from my experience... waking, deep sleep, dream, sleep paralysis can dawn as clear light.
January 30 at 11:08am · Edited · Like · 2

Kyle Dixon: I had an experience like that loud boom except it also shook the room or the bed, my girlfriend also heard the boom and felt the shaking. We were both under the impression it was an earthquake. Felt very weird though, and although she didn't say anything at the time she was terrified apparently. No one else felt an earthquake, there's a 24hr security guy nearby and he didn't feel an earthquake and the US geological survey listed no earthquakes that night. Weird stuff.
January 30 at 11:19am via mobile · Like

Soh: Interesting... no ideas what that was myself.. were you and her asleep?
January 30 at 11:23am · Edited · Like

Kyle Dixon: I remember opening my eyes a couple seconds before and feeling a looming presence or a sense that something was about to happen and then the boom happened and the shaking started. She said she woke up to the boom and that I was already awake.
January 30 at 11:45am via mobile · Like

Christine Auger: I've experienced that "exploding head syndrome" many times. Usually in the dream I get shot in the head when I experience the boom and it wakes me up. I've never experienced it in a lucid dream.
January 30 at 2:55pm · Like

Albert Hong: Yeah i've had that too.
January 30 at 4:49pm via mobile · Like

Menno Wendy Baks:  i love Soh ' s sharing ..... sweet i also love Soh ..... bliss € brilliance
January 30 at 4:55pm · Like

Joel Rosenblum: I have had a few dreams become lucid, and when they did, I took a disinterest in people in the dreams. I explained to them that they were just dream people I was imagining. But the odd thing is, they then replied, "So what?" As if to say that I should respect them, and even engage them, despite my knowing they are my imagination. That was pretty mind-blowing... I am still not sure what to think. Of course people should be respected, but it seem to me the engaging people in discussions/activities is generally a pointless distraction...
January 30 at 10:44pm · Edited · Like · 1

Dannon Flynn: That is one of those interesting things about dream characters, is they don't react the way you would expect them to. How curious.

I remember a dream I had when I was about 23. I became partially lucid (I knew I was dreaming, but I thought the other characters were real and dreaming as well). I started telling people "This is a dream! You are dreaming! This isn't real!" and one of them actually said to me "Are you a Buddhist or something?" haha. Other people were trying to understand it intellectually and thinking it was an interesting philosophy. I was getting frustrated, they weren't getting the simple fact that this was a dream. One of the dream characters must have been enlightened or something because she said "If you are dreaming, this is your dream, and then who are we?" I then became fully lucid and realized that these 'others' were only figments of my imagination. But I didn't have the heart to tell them, because all eyes were on me, they wanted to know who they were, they were nervous as well. These words came out of my mouth "You are the part of me that will never forget you." Then they all blinked, and then gave me a standing ovation! It was funny getting a standing ovation from a crowd of no-selfs. I am also amazed at those words that just came spontaneously out of my mouth. I have told those words to many women since then. And I never forgot who any of those dream characters were.
January 30 at 10:48pm · Like

Joel Rosenblum: Of course, the obvious thing that one rarely realizes in the lucid dream is that none of the dream characters, including "you" is any more or less real than any other...
January 30 at 10:51pm · Like · 1

Dannon Flynn: "Including 'you.'" _/|\_ 
January 30 at 11:07pm · Like

Dannon Flynn: Full lucidity... Buddhahood. "The Awakened One" The clear light. Rigpa. Nirvana.
January 30 at 11:09pm · Edited · Like

Tan Jui Horng: Strangely I've recently been getting some experiences when dreaming. The actual contents of the dream seem to be appearing as a product of my "dreamer's" thoughts, i.e. I'm actually semi-aware that I'm thinking of a thought and then the content manifests itself inside the dream. Not actually completely aware/lucid dreaming (no actual control like in lucid dreaming, just a helpless observer and in fact, I do fall back into normal dreaming), but it's as though it's now a dual-tiered dream. Any thoughts on this?
January 31 at 12:08am · Like · 1

Soh: Sounds like the onset of lucid dreaming... when you are conscious that you are projecting your dream, then eventually you can project dreams by will. 

Also there are states of lucid dreaming where the dream is extremely real. It's like if you intend to project a place, you will experience being at that place with life-like clarity and vividness... if you want to listen to something, say a song, you will experience hearing that song with life-like clarity and details... when you wake up you wonder how the hell can you hear the song in sleep when you can't really remember the song in details now in waking state.
January 31 at 12:40am · Edited · Like · 1

Dannon Flynn: Tan Jui, this is how dreams manifest. Identifying with a thought. You can watch dreams float past without entering them. Like different browser windows open on your monitor. All with no physical location in the internet. It sounds like you are gaining some insight into the origin of dreams and the nature of dreaming.
January 31 at 12:51am · Like

Wei Yu: The autonomy is in the sense that there is conscious intention involved in manifesting images, i.e. not being lost in projections unconsciously. Not in the sense that there is actually a real self or agent that is controlling the dreams. If you want to stop the dream you can stop, if you want to see eiffel tower you can see eiffel tower by intention. Lucid dream however is not the same as clear light dream.

As for complete realization, then you should ask the Buddha. Buddha probably doesn't dream nor need to. But I see no hindrances to dreaming if dream dawn as clear light dream. Just like having thoughts is not a problem to rigpa - in fact if one is in true rigpa (knowledge) then thought arises as the radiance of rigpa and self-liberates. Every thought, or sense perception, or dream perception, any and all appearance is a vivid display of non-dual luminosity/knowing and at the same time empty and dependently originated... nothing locatable or graspable with any substance, only magical illusions. It would be a fault to see the nature of mind as something that remains only after all thoughts cease, for every thought and perception is in actuality of the equal taste of the nature of mind as well.

As 14th Century Mahamudra Master Dakpo Tashi Namgyal states:

"When you look into a thought's identity, without having to dissolve the thought and without having to force it out by meditation, the vividness of the thought is itself the indescribable and naked state of aware emptiness. We call this seeing the natural face of innate thought or thought dawns as dharmakaya."
January 31 at 5:40am · Edited · Like · 1

Dannon Flynn: Ditto
January 31 at 2:05am · Like

Dannon Flynn: It seems like the stopping of the dream is the dharmakaya, the dream is the sambhogakaya, and waking life is the nirmanakaya. It seems like clear light dreams have no cause, besides conditions being right. It seems like a bodhisattva or a tulku would continue to dream in order to have dream characters to liberate.
January 31 at 2:11am · Like

Dannon Flynn: So non-karmic dreams still happen? And non-karmic thoughts?
January 31 at 2:27am · Like

Soh: Jackson, choosing is just a figure of speech. There actually wasn't choosing but there was a conscious thought. Because you are completely lucid in your dream (well it doesn't mean there is a 'you' there being lucid, it just means there is lucidity), and are completely aware that the dream contents are pure projection rather than reality, then there is a freedom to manifest consciously anything that is in mind - whether it is eiffel tower or whatever, knowing fully well that all these are mere projections of mind. For example in an unconscious dream there is no awareness that the dream content is projection, so you get helplessly chased by the dream monster. In lucid dream, the dream monster can simply pass through you without fear because there is complete lucidity and awareness of the projected nature of dream. And the monster can be transformed into something else, for example. In one lucid dream I simply walked over the cliff knowing fully well the projected nature of dream and it was thrilling and fearless.

Of course throughout this there is no "you" - there never was a "you", and neither does lucid dreaming imply that there is a "you". Any "you" that is being mentioned are just mere conventions, even the Buddha says "I" and "you" as mere conventional parlance, it doesn't mean the Buddha is deluded. 

Lucid dream simply means there is just that there is full consciousness that the dream contents are mere projection of mind. That being said, as I always said, lucid dream is not the same as clear light dream.

Next is, thoughts do not need to arise in a state of ignorance. They can arise in a state of ignorance, or they can become 'allies' (which is why there is such thing as Clear Light Dreams as clearly explained by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche), as Longchenpa wrote:


Six points summarize the process of direct introduction: The true ground of all experience is nondual and free of bias. The confused perception of that ground is the nature of samsara. Confused perception and fixation on that confusion are magical expressions of your own mind. Reversing that confusion lies in refining your experience of the dynamic energy of awareness, which has no fixed basis. Ordinary appearances and mind resolve naturally, free within timeless awareness, and so you take a firm stance in the primordial state of naturally pristine timeless awareness. These six points are extremely important general themes in the teachings; the mere realization of their meaning naturally brings fulfillment.


The distinct features of a crystal sphere, a mirror, and rays of sunlight represent the three aspects of innately limpid essence, nature and expression. Dharmakaya is by nature a state of complete purity, comparable to the inherent purity of a crystal sphere. Sambhogakaya's mode of presence is by nature a state of utter lucidity, comparable to a reflection in a polished mirror. Nirmanakaya's manifest mode is an embodiment that entails no division of outer and inner, like rays of the sun or moon shining in the ten directions. In that the kayas are timelessly and spontaneously present within you, do not seek them elsewhere, but understand that they are natural attributes.


There are six ways to embrace concepts as allies: Maintain an ongoing awareness of conceptual consciousness as if it were a gentle breeze, dying down in and of itself; you will experience naturally occurring timeless awareness arising from within. Train in experiencing the stirring of the mind as if it were lighting in the sky, pure in and of itself; you will experience anything that stirs in the mind arising as naturally lucid timeless awareness. Maintain an ongoing awareness of consciousness as if it were a ripple on water, diminishing in and of itself; you will experience all consciousness arising as the naturally occurring and majestic state of enlightened intent. Maintain an ongoing awareneess of any concepts as allies, arising as expressions of the true nature of reality; you will experience enlightened intent arising from deep within, involving no acceptance or rejection. Maintain an ongoing awarness of your fixated perceptions as allies, resolving naturally with no object remaining; you will experience timeless awareness arising within you, without fixed basis, and will perceive things as evanescent. Maintain an ongoing awareness of the natural radiance of awareness, lucid and pure, as an ally--the lucid expanse of being; you will experience timeless awareness arising from deep within, vivid yet leaving no trace. You who practice thus, immersing yourselves in genuine being, will experience timeless awareness arising from thoughts themselves. It is absolutely essential that you experience all things manifesting as your allies, just as stacks of dry wood fuel a great fire."
January 31 at 3:04am · Edited · Like · 1

Dannon Flynn: I really like that. That seems to be how dreams end.
January 31 at 3:01am · Like

Soh: By the way Jax, have you read the above passage I quoted from Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche? A quote from him: 

"The clear light dream is not the same as the dream of clarity, which, while arising from deep and relatively pure aspects of the mind and generated from positive karmic traces, still takes place in duality. The clear light dream, while emerging from the karmic traces of the past, does not result in dualistic experience. The practitioner does not reconstitute as an observing subject in relation to the dream as an object, nor as a subject in the world of the dream, but abides wholly integrated with non-dual rigpa. "
January 31 at 3:03am · Like

Dannon Flynn: And in waking life.
January 31 at 3:04am · Like

Wei Yu: First of all, lucid dream is just samsaric experience though slightly better than being completely lost. There is nothing particularly special about lucid dreaming and many of my non buddhist friend also experience them. 

However when the stream of wisdom penetrates not only waking state where all waking thoughts and sensations dawn as Dharmakaya, even dream state can dawn as Dharmakaya. This is vastly different from normal lucid dreaming and is only accessible when your waking experience of wisdom has been stabilized. It is also not just remaining in a formless thoughtless state of Presence like sustaining presence in deep dreamless sleep.
January 31 at 4:53am via mobile · Edited · Like

Joel Rosenblum: I think desiring to wake up from dreaming has been causing me to lose a lot of sleep and to be miserably bored by my non-lucid dreams. When I am lucid, I use the opportunity to meditate in the dream, which often produces some fantastic experiences...
January 31 at 5:21am via mobile · Like · 1

Wei Yu: Not only does Longchenpa talk about 'allies', ChNNR also talked about 'friends'. I think it's just another way of saying that thought can dawn as the radiance of rigpa.

ChNNR [Chögyal Namkhai Norbu], The Cycle of Day and Night:

"As the result of the natural Clear Light practice, in the period subsequent to contemplation (rjes thob), and in this case, it is the dream state which is meant, we begin to experience awareness in dreams, recognizing dreams to be dreams while we are still asleep. Therefore with the practice of the natural Clear Light, we do not need any other special dream practice or yoga. And finding ourselves freed of all illusions and delusions ('khrul bral), dreams will arise as helpful friends to manifesting our entire dimension of existence and its primordial awareness (sku dang ye-shes grogs su shar)."
January 31 at 5:23am · Like

Wei Yu: Jax, in Clear Light dream, there is no character at all! There is no self at all... only indescribable bliss, clarity and transparency - no center, no boundaries... there may be appearance of dream, say the shapes/colours of the dream scene, but there is no seer, no dream character or stories at all, nor any projected solidity to the forms being experienced.

It is like in waking state - in seeing just the seen. Except in the dream this is also so.
January 31 at 6:19am · Edited · Like

Albert Hong: I had a dream last night. I am not sure if it was a dream of clarity but I did meet some non dual teacher and she did energetic surgery on me. Said something about my energy was twisted. I remember the energy in the lower back flowing upwards and twisting around. I woke up and that same energy was doing its thing. 

Very interesting lady. I did see her actually do the surgery on the subtle body. Just though I'd share this weird ass dream.
February 3 at 9:38am · Like · 2

Wei Yu: Albert Hong, yes I would say it's a dream of clarity... especially when you feel the effects of it even after dream into your waking state, I think it is definitely some evidence of dream of clarity. Thanks for sharing.

I've had plenty of weird dreams of clarity too involving teachers and teachings etc... too many to recount all at once.. sometimes pointers extremely profound related to deep realization of anatta and emptiness and the next step in my practise (when a certain dream of such nature occurred, Thusness told me this occurred due to my deep karmic connection to him and his prayers in dream [if I understood correctly] came to fruition), sometimes a very wise dream lesson that gave superb answers what I have been pondering in life, had dreams of receiving instruction for mantra by what seems like a dakini even (I cannot find the tune online when I woke up but I entered into incredible bliss and tears when I started chanting), etc etc. I've had dreams of clarity involving many teachers, including ChNNR telling me the essentiality of guru yoga in dream and then sending me the same message reply in e-mail the next day, believe I mentioned this as well.

Here's one dream: once a female teacher (I don't know who but I was sure a deeply enlightened figure) told me this: she likes animals like birds, cats, etc, because they have a sense of wonder in them, then more so should we (I presume its referring to buddhist practitioners), experience that twenty times more. 

At that point, my dream blanked out into blackness, and I entered into a samadhi like state (like the formless Presence samadhi I said earlier), where the sense of wonder and bliss was so incredibly intense... After that I woke up. And though I didn't sleep much, I felt very refreshed and awake and not tired at all.
February 3 at 10:07am · Edited · Like · 1

Albert Hong: Ah I forgot my ChNNR [Chögyal Namkhai Norbu] dream where he told me to practice shitro.

It seems dreams become a medium of communication.

February 3 at 10:10am · Like · 1

Albert Hong: One thing I'd like to mention is the eyes.

In dreams of clarity if you look into peoples eyes.

There is a special quality to them. Like they have the appearance of the teacher or person you know but their eyes are extremely clear.

ChNNR in the dream had those eyes and even in real life when I saw him he had those same eyes.

Its like the clarity shines outwards through the eyes.

And that is something I've been noticing in people generally. It is rare but when I look at teachers or individuals its the eyes that tell me everything.

And in dreams of clarity that is the oddest thing I've run into so far.
February 3 at 10:19am · Like · 2

Seraph Tai: Soh, tnx for sharing.
In Vedanta, the Awareness stage or "I am presence" realization is sometimes called Brahmajyoti (shining, light, brightness of brahma).
And thats what it really is (for me), a bright realization which blinds one for everything else. When anatta insight manifests, however, only then the Bright Shining is overcome. 
Silent joy arises here when I read your words about overcoming the brightness even in dreams. 
February 7 at 4:24am · Like · 1

Wei Yu: Hi Seraph Tai, I would not see it as overcoming bright shining... it is rather an overcoming of reifying the bright luminosity of mind into a Self, of moulding Awareness into a substantially existing essence due to the poverty of our dualistic and inherent framework. This ignorance, tendency, to grasp things and self and luminosity in terms of inherent existence can only be seen through by penetrating the emptiness of awareness. Yet at the same time the emptiness of awareness does not deny "vivid luminosity as forms"... It is dissolving the sense of 'I Am' or Self... while retaining vivid awareness as forms (however, even vivid awareness as forms are empty and self-releasing, nothing to hold on to)

It is realization that 'luminosity', which is mere naked knowing presence, has never existed as a standalone entity or independent Self underlying things... instead... it IS the 'things', the forms, the shapes, the sounds... even the dreams. Seeing is not a standalone seeing - seeing is always only just the shapes/colours/forms without seer... hearing is ever just sound without hearer.

Knowing is always already the known, it is just like the word "wind" collates a process of blowing... knowing collates a process of knowns - self-knowing knowns. 

Everything is brilliant, bright, self-aware... the sensate experiential world is "brightly shining" without a standalone "Bright Shining". And if this insight penetrates into the three states, whether waking, deep sleep, or dream, we will experience this presence AS appearance that is centerless, boundless and non-local... nowhere to abide and yet vividly manifesting according to conditions.

Nothing wrong with luminosity per se... it is stated in the Pabhassara Sutta that,

"Luminous, monks, is the mind.[1] And it is defiled by incoming defilements." {I,v,9}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements." {I,v,10}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind." {I,vi,1}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}"

Since mind/experience is already luminous in essence, the only problem is that it is being defiled... and defilements include the reification, imputation, superimposition of self/Self upon this stream or continuum of luminosity/clear light.
February 7 at 6:39am · Edited · Like · 1

Seraph Tai: Very well said, basically what I wanted to say. Thank you.
February 7 at 3:53pm · Like · 1

Albert Hong: Had another crazy dream of clarity.

I'll add it here because they're cute to talk about.

I met trungpa rinpoche in some room and he gave me a teaching in tibetian. In the dream i understood everything and he even gave me notes which were in korean. Either way it was very hard to stay there and I told him my focus isn't atrong and that I had to go soon. He was very empathetic. Anyways I woke up and there is a tug on the heart center.

Anyways thought I'd share.
February 12 at 3:45am via mobile · Like · 3

Tommy McNally: On the subject of dream-teaching, which seems to be hilariously common amongst a few of us in this group...I had an incredibly clear experience the other week involving Aleister Crowley teaching me about the three channels and demonstrating how to move energy up the central channel from the heart to the throat. Since then, I've had an unusual amount of energetic activity and a lot of really difficult 'breaking through' sort of experiences psychologically - by which I mean, a lot of deeply imprinted mental stuff has been forcibly and painfully uprooted (almost) without effort. I think my background in non-Dharma related traditions still plays a large part in the way this mind represents and reconstructs these sorts of experience, which in itself is interesting since the bulk of my practice and study is within a Buddhist framework.
February 12 at 6:44am · Like

Albert Hong: Once I met Kenneth Folk in a dream.

Pretty cool dude.
February 12 at 6:48am · Like · 1

Albert Hong: Maybe we could all meet in a dream land sometime?

Is that possible?



isn't that what facebook is.
February 12 at 6:52am · Edited · Like · 1

Tommy McNally: Well, a lot of magickal groups use the idea of an "astral temple" so it's certainly possible. The logistics of it, given that we're all in different timezones, would be a pain in the ass though. lol
February 12 at 6:55am · Like

Greg Goode: I used to be in the Rosicrucians. Meeting in the astral? No prob!
February 12 at 6:58am · Like · 2

Menno Wendy Baks: to Albert Hong .... the solidification of perceptions ... omisi ... ooooooo letting go ..... sweet to be a child of illusion ........ u r so light hearted ... i like you funny face yup .... u r in my dream .... LOL U R 


MEN AT WORK = cosmic humour. yet we do not laugh at each other ( no harm ) 

where dat preacher man lol. ...... wild eyed me wild eyed you yet 

gottah love potency ...
February 12 at 7:05am via mobile · Like · 1

Tan Jui Horng: What does it mean when you dream of a person though? Does literally mean that the person entered your dream? So for example, person "a" whom you dreamt about also knows that he/she was in your dream, and in fact made the decision to go into your dream.
February 12 at 8:38am · Like

Albert Hong: Its impossible to know for sure.

But I suppose its how one spins it.

So if one desires to view it as intentions lining up that is one view that works.

Or if it literally two individuals meeting in some kind of space.

Or if its complete projected.

Or if its the unseen realms communicating.

Could be aspects of your unconscious communicating or trying to make sense of itself.

February 12 at 8:53am · Like

Menno Wendy Baks: the people in my life are always in my dreams when i dream so what it just means they matter to me in a mundane way ... lucid dreaming .... is very interesting ... usually in my dreams ... i seem to be working matters out ...

i have flown in my dreams ... and i was objectively watching that happen ... i remember enjoying that dream ... lol ..
February 12 at 8:58am via mobile · Like

Albert Hong Oh there are infinite of different ways one can fly in dreams.

Using hands as rocket propellers. 

My favorite is traveling by zooming into an object using the third eye.
February 12 at 9:01am · Like · 1

Menno Wendy Baks: what i dislike and it has happened ... the same dream again and again and i am hiding from some thing or one ... trying to in fact kill me ,,,, quite happy i got over that one ... lol

and then one large creature about to suffocate me but my voice box quite useless and unable to move simply woke up 

lately i do not seem to have anxiety dreams which is sweet cuss they no fun ... ... 

dreaming is very important and we do it every night whether we remember them or not ... 

sleep is very profound lol 

not a good sleeper actually so ... love life love old age love sickness love death ... 

never get jaded i would not like to live my life feeling jaded ... in other words that life was not worth living 

thx guys i like this group so
February 12 at 9:12am via mobile · Like

Albert Hong: When you need to get out of a dream or if you're in sleep paralysis you should just change your breathing patterns. that will instantly wake you up.

or take the tibetian book of dead advice. its all minds projections, recognize and self liberate!
February 12 at 9:14am · Like · 1

Dannon Flynn: I was involved with a group of dreamers who dream shared. I don't look at it as a separate place we all meet literally. More like we are all logged into the same group! There are differences to where the separate dreams don't line up. Meeting in the astral.
February 12 at 3:17pm · Like

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